Electrek: "I still can’t believe how dumb Toyota is being about electric vehicles."

I follow Electrek on twitter only because they have EV headlines before others. I refuse to click their links though because the owners have shown themselves lacking in morals on a variety of issues.

 

Meh

 

seems like a good article, can anyone prove them wrong?

 

Discussing this over here, Toyota still balking on EV's | PriusChat

Bloomberg was the one to originally report the comments.
A $255 Billion EV Debate Is Raging Among the World’s Biggest Automakers

 

From that article;
...If either group follows through on its level of interest in electric vehicles, the Northeast will see a huge spike in electric vehicle sales...
Both Millennials and Boomers overwhelmingly agree—...—electric is the future of automobiles...

 

Sure pull the quote out.....but how long will this take, why not quote the first paragraph.

 

the claimed cost of the battery was an out and out lie. who do they think believes them, and why would they use that as an excuse.
just say you can't make a profit currently, and be done with it.

 

Intelligent debates would require actually reading for context. In the case of that quote, notice how everyone just blew past the word "average" without even bothering to consider what it actually represented?

Think about the capacities for an "average" vehicle. They have a 15 gallon gas tank and deliver about 30 MPG. That's a range expectation of 450 miles... which most of us would recognize as quite typical. More of a guzzler would have a larger capacity to compensate, to deliver roughly the same range.

Think about how big the battery-pack would have to be to match that expectation of 450 miles. Knowing the "average" vehicle is much heavier and much less aerodynamic than a Prius, you have to use something like Pacifica or Outlander as a somewhat practical measure of EV efficiency. Ratings of 45 kWh/100mi are about what a vehicle like that would deliver. Anyone else see the problem?

45 kWh * (450/100) = 202.5 kWh

202.5 kWh * $150 per kWh = $30,375

Then when you add in the longevity capacity buffer, since you won't be stressing the battery-pack by charging to 100% and discharging to 0% to achieve that 450-mile range expection, the value easily matches up with what had previously seemed a wild estimate of $34,000.

So much for intelligent debate.

 

john, you must be houdini to pull the rabbit out of that hat

 

Average is simple math. Collect data for all involved, then divide. The article cherry picked.

 

I appreciate the starting condition:

Thanks to my 150 mile range BMW i3-REx, 18.6 kWh and a 34 hp motorcycle engine with a 2.3 gallon tank, I relearned what it was like to drive a 1929 Model A, later, 1966 VW Microbus, and a 1975 550cc Yamaha motorcycle. We haven't always had 450 mile range vehicles and the 640 mile range, Prius Prime was awesome for going 3-4 times further than my old man biology could handle. But I can appreciate the projected range requirement even if it doesn't apply to our requirement.

Requirements are a personal thing that each family must weigh. Ours is the 120 mile, un-refueled and un-recharged to Nashville where mine and my wife's sleep doctor practices and the nearest, major airport. Three weeks ago, we took delivery of a 240 mi, Standard Range Plus, Model 3. Last week, I visited the doctor and took a 10-15 minute recharge at the Tesla store. The round trip, 255 mi, cost $5.50 in battery and $1.50 at the SuperCharger ... $7.00 and driving my normal Prius style. Tesla's basic AutoPilot was my copilot.

Every car, van, motorcycle, and airplane we've owned had different characteristics, maintenance, and costs. The Model 3 is no different. So I'm carefully expanding the range and thankful I had a Prius Prime to trade-in for $18.3k.

Perhaps someday Toyota will have a better car than the Model 3 ... perhaps not. They are the same decision makers who hobbled the 2016 Level Two ECO by not including TSS-P. It was a decision that led me to the BMW i3-REx and a different path.

Toyota invented the Prius, a brilliant design and still an industry leader in efficient cars. I bear them no ill will nor disrespect. I'm just taking a different path.

Bob Wilson

 

This is what Carter said, “On electrification, we see an opportunity in North America, but it’s much further down the road. The average vehicle today costs $34,000 and for many EVs, the battery costs $34,000. The economics are not there.”

Note the ilatics. He had stopped talking about average vehicles, and is broadly singling out EVs actually available, not a hypothetical BEV with a 450 mile range.

 

he should have left off after unprofitable. that would have been more profitable.