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FUBAR Gen 1 Battery...should I proceed?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by dirt657, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. dirt657

    dirt657 Member

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    Got this gen 1 battery from a customer today. Got the codes. Battery blocks 6 and 8 were bad. Never messed with a gen 1 prius before but said ah hell, why not?

    Tore it down and this is what I saw. So much corrosion and crap built up that I had to pry the busbars and wiring harness off by wedging a flat head in between the terminals on the modules. Busbars are worse than I have ever seen. Corrosion all over the place.

    Initial voltage test has module 7 and 12 bad. Cell 12 read 4.5 volts (worst I’ve ever seen) and module 7 was at 6.5. I have yet to do capacity tests but in my experience I have brought 99% of non-failed (initially tested) modules back.

    Should I proceed and try and repair this pack? I will scub the case down for sure. Any ideas on how to remove the corrosion from the module terminals or just some good old fashion elbow grease and 7 up?
    I’ve heard a lot about using gen 2 modules and some even mixing them, but I’ve heard different opinions on this. I need to know which route to take because I don’t want to lose this customer. Please let me know your opinions
     

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  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Some of what you were prying against was surely the glue from the sealing campaign.
     
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  3. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    The dark colored "corrosion" you speak of is actually a sealant material installed for a recall due to electrolyte leakage. The light colored corrosion is the same fluffy stuff you sometimes see on 12v battery terminals. I've seen this on a few Gen 1 batteries.

    Your blocks and modules aren't matching up. Codes for blocks 6 and 8 would be modules 11/12 and 15/16 from the ecu on Gen 1 iirc. Module 7 would be Block 4. Probably self discharged during the time it was removed from the car.

    If you do capacity testing, you'll most likely find most of those 38 modules aren't worth their weight in dirt.

    Do not mix Gen 1 and Gen 2/3 modules. They are different sizes (physically) and they have a different style interlock with adjacent modules.
     
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  4. dirt657

    dirt657 Member

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    Interesting. These modules maybe aren’t that bad because they’ve definitely been replaced at one point or the other. Maybe I should clean these modules up and give it a shot?
     
  5. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Did they use Gen 1 modules? Due to improvements mixing module generations in the same pack is not recommended. Usually the best solution for a Gen 1 is a new OEM pack. I believe they made improvements over the original one.
     
  6. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    What are the first 5 digits on the serial numbers? I'm going to go with those are original Gen 1. No other modules have that sealant. You can immediately tell these are Gen 1 by the orientation of the temperature sensor clips. If you look at the top of the modules, where the temperature sensors mount, the plastic clips go the opposite direction of the later generations.
     
  7. Brian in Tucson

    Brian in Tucson Active Member

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    I'm not rich, and my Gen 1 battery was replace by a Toyota replacement in fall 2013. Is this battery yours? or your customers? Is the plan to repair as cheaply as possible? What's the rest of the car like--mileage, corrosion, other worn components?

    I ask these questions because, IMHO, a really good Gen 1 is worth a new battery pack. The old point about replacing individual modules is an exercise in wack a mole is correct. It's pretty much a guarantee of future problems, and that is what kills our cars. Treat it like it's a useful car and it lasts longer. Mine is an 02, 208K, with a newish inverter coolant pump, a replacement used brake booster pump, and a newish cat. Literally a daily driver, and in my two years of ownership, it's driven from Tucson to the Oregon shore and back. I wouldn't hesitate to do that again.

    The newer factory batteries have much improved modules, btw. Spendy, but for the Gen 1, the best option.
     
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  8. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    If you like your Gen1 and the battery is hosed, the only good solution if the battery is original (15+ years old) is a new OEM pack.

    Any "repair" or other battery you find will likely fail in weeks/months. BTDT!

    I tell my customers that even though a new OEM battery is worth more than the car, the battery will likely last 10 years. If you kill the car, you can buy another Gen1 that needs an HV battery for $300-$1000 on craigslist then transplant the "near new" battery over.

    As of May 2019 we're charging $2500 installed + tax for BRAND NEW OEM batteries installed at our shop in Boulder, CO.
    (we also need your old core).
     
  9. Brian in Tucson

    Brian in Tucson Active Member

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    What's the warranty on a BRAND NEW OEM battery that you install? The reason I ask is that if it's done at a Toyota dealership, it has a 3 year warranty, but I've read that if it's not done a dealership, the warranty is only a year.

    I guess every car situation is different. If the chassis is heavily corroded, or the car in general is kinda tatty, it doesn't make sense to toss $2500 at it. This from a guy that bought a $400 02 Prius and fairly promptly replaced the brake booster pump and reservoir, the inverter coolant pump, the catalytic converter, and had it painted at Maico and got custom wheels at Discount tire. So don't necessarily take my word for it. (tho my 02 is awfully nice!)
     
  10. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    We provide a 3 year / 36k mile warranty on any new OEM HV battery we install, However, if someone else installs a genuine Toyota new battery the warranty is not that important since there is close to a 0% chance of it failing within 3 years.

    Any other battery you definitely need a warranty since there is close to 100% chance of it failing within 3 years and higher than 100% if it's a Dorman battery.
     
  11. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    This is true for Gen 1 but for Gen 2 & 3 @2k1Toaster 's kit of new cells should last as long as OEM new.
     
  12. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    I have no direct experience with 2k1Toaster's offerings, but I've installed over 200 OEM batteries and never had any issues with the OEM packs. I have had trouble with everything that is rebuilt/refurbished, even the packs we rebuild in-house. There is nothing as good as new when it comes to batteries.....and anyone that says rebuilt is as good as new is either ignorant or lying.
     
    #12 3prongpaul, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  13. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Toaster's kit is new cylindrical cells. So, basically it is a new battery. He sells the kit for $1600 delivered in CONUS. He works with rechargeable batteries in hos profession and started this as a side business.
    @ericbecky drove a pack for over 3000 miles before getting bored with monitoring it. He uses it elsewhere now.
     
  14. dirt657

    dirt657 Member

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    I’m probably just gonna replace it with a bunch of gen 2 modules. I have about 80 laying around
     
  15. dirt657

    dirt657 Member

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    E284A97F-6B44-473F-98D0-9CB8D9783EEA.jpeg 2EC92098-5772-4E36-9B98-3B65BB8DBBB1.jpeg C874B623-1909-4466-9AA0-8313D80131A7.jpeg Hey guys. Little update on this project. I kept the case and got 2 gen 2 packs from a local junkyard. As I was removing the under battery bolts that hold the modules in (I was reconditioning the few gen 1 modules that would take it so I can sell them), the compression block plate on the opposite side of the ECU fell off my sawhorse (sigh) and what appears to be wiring to the temp sensors came undone. Questions:

    1. Is it safe to recrimp this and throw it back together? Or will I need to order a new part. If so does anyone have a source where I can find one?

    2. The last picture shows the opposite side of this wiring on the back side which appeared to be broken off when I got the pack. What should I do about this, or is it actually supposed to be like that (doubtful),
     
  16. dirt657

    dirt657 Member

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  17. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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  19. dirt657

    dirt657 Member

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    Thank you !
     
  20. dirt657

    dirt657 Member

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    I hope this is the right part