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Price Sanity Check - New Noob

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by Jim Stoll, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. Jim Stoll

    Jim Stoll Member

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    I've got a 2006 Prius I got used some years back, am in need of another car (kids starting to drive, and the 2006 will do them fine...), so am naturally looking for another Prius - this would be my first new car. I live in southwest VA, FWIW.

    I've been quoted a $24.3k pre-tax price on a 2019 LE model, through a dealer contacted via a buyer's service associated with my bank. The quote shows an MSRP of $24,980, 'Factory Installed Options' of $268, Delivery Fee of $930, and Dealer Doc Prep fee of $599. Listed discounts show as 'Dealer MSRP Discount' of $950, a $1k discount for the bank/service association, and a $500 Toyota Cash Back offer. (Sales tax between VA and my locality should be about 5%)

    I'd started out looking for the 'L Eco' model due to its lower MSRP, but nobody seems to have any within 100mi or so. $24k is more than I was looking to spend, but I don't know if that's just the price you pay for an LE, or if there's more I should be doing, or other places I should be looking.

    The quote included several different LE models, with the 'Factory Installed Options' ranging from $268 to $673. When I asked about the differences in the models, I was told that if the MSRP was the same on them all (which it was on the quote sheet), they were the same car, just different color combinations. (Doesn't quite make sense to me, but as noted, I'm new to this game.)

    Any helpful advice or input for a New Noob?
     
  2. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    Translated as “dealer profit added on.”

    Don’t negotiate relative to MSRP, negotiate relative to invoice.

    In the end, all that matters is your bottom line price - the amount of the check you write. They can break that out anyway they want, but the total is all that matters.

    Some paint colors are extra money, and the delivery fee is a fixed price regardless of model or trim or color. Some of the factory options can be deleted - i.e floor mats.
     
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  3. Jim Stoll

    Jim Stoll Member

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    Thanks for the info and pointers, jb.

    At a general level (whether MSRP-based or Invoice-based - as you say, the bottom line price), is $24.3k a sensible price for an LE? I have no real basis of comparison other than what I see listed online, which seems to always be MSRP. :-/
     
  4. esfishdoc

    esfishdoc Junior Member

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    Hey Jim!
    Most of these price listings and discussions are "unknowable" in my opinion. Even if someone here tells you they walked out paying XX,XXX.XX you have to take it with a grain of salt. There are so many variables and so many local variations the only person who knows what a particular car's bottom price is on any given day is a person you will never see or find. Dealers are experts armed with the latest weapons in the price game and we are walking in naked without experience and no maps. They hold all the power and we have little. Even if we have first hand knowledge of what something is really worth, that may have little bearing on what we will be allowed to pay. For every expert buyer there are many coming in ready trade in a car and sign papers for whatever price they are told.

    There are dealer to dealer variations also: One dealer will offer free oil changes for life and others some other deal that makes it hard to compare apples to oranges.

    What is your time worth? How many hours and days do you have to spend working on the best deal? I think the only way to get the best deal is to play the field and hold out till an end of month or end of year situation.

    My only advice: Never ever... ever ever... buy any type of extended warranty or protection or anything else they might try and sell you. In my opinion that is where they make their easy money and laugh all the way to the bank so to speak.

    Best,

    Richard
     
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  5. Punkinann

    Punkinann Junior Member

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    Seems high to me. I just bought a 2019 LE for $24.2k including 8.5% tax and fees, in SF.

    I emailed and called 4-5 dealers, letting them know that I was more interested in buying a late 2017 or 2018 Prius Two (for the blind spot monitoring etc), but would consider a 2019 LE if the price was comparable.

    It soon became clear that the dealers weren’t willing to negotiate the price of a certified used Prius much if at all, which was too bad as I would have preferred that. But they were willing to lower the price of a new LE to the point where it was only $2k more than a 2018 Two with 33k Miles.

    At that point, I had two rounds of going back to 2-3 dealers asking if they could do better than the other dealer’s best “out-the-door” price.

    I agree that the “out-the-door” price, with taxes and fees, is the price to negotiate. In the initial quote from dealer I ended up going with, the car price was $300 lower, but the out-the-door price was $750 higher, compared to the final quote/sale.

    Hope this is helpful.



    Seems
     
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  6. Jim Stoll

    Jim Stoll Member

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    Thanks, All for the input and advice! After some back and forth with a few dealers, its looking like I'm heading toward the 2019 'L Eco' model - the price is more in the range I want to be in. While the blindspot monitor, rear cross traffic alert, and rear proximity sensors would be nice-to-haves, they're not worth the extra approx $1.5k it seems I'd have to pay to have them. (And the parking assist seems like a neat gimmick, but I can't imagine ever needing or using that feature.) If desired, I can scare up a temp spare somewhere, and hack out a hole in the under-floor foam for it. (The lack of a spare is actually the biggest feature drawback I personally see between the LE and L Eco! :)

    So, the best OTD offer I have for a 2019 L Eco is presently $23.7k. I'm talking with 3 different dealers, to see who can come up with the best offer, but I suspect its likely to end up in the neighborhood of this $23.7k amount. It seems that dealers aren't highly motivated to sell the L Eco models - as one salesman told me (he seemed to be being very frank, but perhaps that's why he's a salesman... :), the profit margins on the L Eco model is very thin. None of the 3 dealers I've narrowed things down to have one in stock, and I suspect that whichever I go with, they're likely to be eyeing the same L Eco vehicle that is 'available within 200 miles' of their dealerships.

    Once I get what seems to be the final, best offer, I'll have to make the call. I'm honestly still a little on the fence regarding new vs used, but as @Punkinann points out, I've also found that there seems to be a fairly small gap between a low-mileage used Prius (granted, usually at a higher trim level that L Eco) and a new L Eco, and the prices on the used models seem pretty well fixed.

    @esfishdoc - I totally hear you on the time investment thing. This is my first new car process, so its been a good learning experience, but I've definitely put in a lot more time than was probably worth it, from a time-vs-money perspective. But, in terms of expanding my knowledge, horizons, and life skills, its been worthwhile. (And in a way, the process of 'the game' is a little bit entertaining and amusing. I don't take any of it personally, but watching the process of what they initially say, when they then say they can get down to, and then what shows up in a written quote, can be a little bit frustrating and insulting to one's presumed base-level intelligence. :)

    Thanks Again for everyone's responses (and if you have more, please keep them coming!) - its been very helpful!

    Jim
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!
    i find it amazing that in this era of suv/truck sales and catastrophic hybrid/ev sales, that prius aren't commanding a higher discount to get them off the lot.
    perhaps a strategy of intentionally low inventory so they don't have to be too desperate.

    too bad you weren't looking a few months ago, peeps were buying prime for less than the lift back.

    all the best with your decision!(y)
     
  8. Tande

    Tande Active Member

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    Jim........FWIW,... you may want to revisit this; using your numbers, a spare tire & some serious safety advantages represents only 6% more $........IMHO (I know, you didn't ask), a fair trade........again FWIW
     
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  9. Punkinann

    Punkinann Junior Member

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    Agree with Tande. What's the best OTD price they are willing to give you on a Prius LE?
    Comparing quotes on 2 different models may give you some ability to negotiate.

    If it's helpful in calculating a comparable price, my OTD price of $25.2 broke down to a car price of $21.8 (with a $1k rebate), before taxes and fees. It included all-weather floor mats, which I didn't request.
     
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  10. Jim Stoll

    Jim Stoll Member

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    I hear you both on the L Eco vs LE models - its not a huge price difference, but I started out looking for a used car. The relatively modest price difference between a low mileage used Prius, and a new base level L Eco got me thinking though, and I figured it might be worth sucking it up and getting a new L Eco. The pricing is more than I was looking to spend, but sorta makes sense. The step further up to LE, though, is getting to be a fairly significant departure from what I initially set out to spend on a used low-mileage car. So, while I agree the price difference between the L Eco and the LE is not huge, the cumulative jump from upper-teens for something used, to mid-20's for a new LE is just more than I'm ready to commit. (I've got one kid starting college this fall, and another 2 years behind him, so am being very cautious about spending... :)

    So anyway, I hear what you guys are saying, and I agree in principle, but I'm at (a little past, actually) the limit of what I'm willing to spend on the L Eco already. I just don't see the LE happening, as nice as that would be. (And I'm still lightly entertaining the thought of a Corolla Hatchback, but I'm about 95% convinced the difference in cargo volume alone is worth the extra money for the Prius.)
     
  11. Punkinann

    Punkinann Junior Member

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    Got it. Just imagine all the car you could buy with a year of college tuition!
    If you don't need the newer safety features, what's a used 2016 Prius running in your area? I think the Toyota lease runs for 3 years, so there should be 2016s around, and with the leased cars, you know their history.
     
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  12. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    This is why he's a salesman. In their eyes, profit margins on all models are very thin.
     
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  13. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    I'l agree with you on that. You already have three mirrors and a backup camera to do all those things, plus a head that was designed to turn on your neck, along with eyes that also swivel. I passed on all these features in the step up from a Prime Premium to Prime Advanced and I don't miss any of them.
     
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  14. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Active Member

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    Jim, what sales tax is that OTD offer with, and what - if any - options did the dealer put on the car?

    I'm about to go negotiate for a L Eco myself.
     
  15. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Active Member

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    Putting this here since I can't find a pricing thread for 2019's.

    So this is what my work today got me. I did get to spend more time behind the wheel of a Prius LE (not what I want - I want a White L Eco, but everyone is out of them... the deal was to test drive an LE, then make a deal on an White L Eco). Anyway, it was a nice car to drive again. Tested it out at slow speeds and at 88 MPH, seemed OK.

    I'm dealing with the internet department, so they were cool with me leaving (especially on a very busy Saturday), and they sent me this. I'm really not sure how it turned into a Blue LE, from a White L Eco, so I'm awaiting a call or email from the internet department manager. The lady I was working with is nice, but she is not a specs / details person at all... it was a painful experience working with her out in the lot.

    Anyways, thoughts on this price?

    [​IMG]
     
    #15 Mambo Dave, Jul 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  16. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    The dealer service fee is a dealer markup. Negotiate that off the price. I would offer them $25,600 cash and work from there.
     
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  17. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Active Member

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    Thank you. Seriously, thank you for any good advice. I may need to use that.

    I am still awaiting my call back or email back regarding the switch from the L Eco to the LE. I like the cleaner lines of the L Eco, don't like the added complexity of the sensors, and certainly won't use what I consider antiquated little lights to tell me traffic is on my right side. Theoretically, the L Eco should be about $1,700 lower than the LE. I honestly feel that, since the 'upgrades' to the LE are plastic sensors and little lights, plus a pocket behind the seats, that $1,700 is nearly all profit for either Toyota or Toyota and the dealership in as far as money they get outside of the sales.
     
  18. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    For this kind of money, you could probably get a Prime and after the $4,502 Federal rebate (if you can claim all of that, it is a non-refundable credit). you might find a Prime to be less expensive in the end.
     
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  19. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Active Member

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    Just how does that credit work? Is it credit off of my taxes at the end of the year?
     
  20. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    As a non-refundable credit, it is taken off your taxes up to a zero tax bill, but no lower. Assume your Federal tax bill is $6,000. Subtract the $4,502 and your net tax bill is the difference. But, if your Federal tax bill is only $3,000, then you can only claim $3,000 of the EV credit. The Federal government won't pay you money back (it's a non-refundable credit), so the credit will be limited to your tax amount if your Federal tax bill for the year is less than $4,502.

    Note that the controlling limit is your total Federal tax due for the year (line 15 on the 2018 Form 1040), not the amount withheld or your refund.
     
    #20 jb in NE, Jul 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019