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Weak A/C when it is hot

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by pasadena_commut, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Our "new to us" 2007 Gen 2 saw its first hot day in a while and the A/C was exceedingly feeble. Ambient was only around 80F but the inside of the car was way above that once it sat in the sun for a while. I recall using the A/C a month or so ago and it was quite strong. In between then and now the board which controls the dash meters,odometer etc. failed and was replaced by the dealer. This was the first time the A/C was turned on after that. To clarify, the velocity of the air was normal for the fan setting but the temperature was not cold enough.

    Is there anything in the dash they might have misassembled when they replaced that board which might account for this change? Especially if whatever that is is something I can check myself without having to take the car apart?

    Years ago I had a 2003 Protege5 where the heater control cable would snap out of one of its mounts, at which point the cable would rotate until it was perpendicular to the round disk it was supposed to rotate, and that disk in turn opened a little door to control the heat. Once the cable did this turning the control on the dash would no longer operate that door. It wasn't much different if the cable was not attached at that end. Both of those were easy to fix if you knew what to look for. Something along those lines?

    Thanks.
     
    #1 pasadena_commut, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  2. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    There are a few possibilities-

    Your Mazda anecdote is sort of plausible- in the Prius the little doors that control hot and cold air blending are driven by small electric motors, and they can break, stick or stall. The system does have a diagnostic mode, but I don't know how to access it.

    Also be aware that the ECU can unilaterally decide to cut back on air conditioning if it thinks the engine or inverter is close to overheating, thus preserving cooling performance in a last-ditch effort to forestall a real overheat. The car doesn't have a temp gauge, so you wouldn't know that this is playing out in the background. You can add a gauge or set up a diagnostic computer or use a phone app to monitor water temps if you suspect this.
     
  3. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    So Calif saw its first hot day in a while? You have been driving in Southern Calif with the ac off?

    Sometimes when the hybrid battery fails it will shut the ac compressor off to preserve its life.

    Have you ever heard a loud fan noise in the backseat? That's the hybrid cooling fan the hybrid battery starts to die it will turn that fan on full blast. if you let the car sit in the sun all day it will come on too. Your literally cooking the battery to death doing that.

    You will have alot of ac issues if you let the car sit in the sun all day with no windshield shade. Huge windshield for a little car.The car will reach incredibly hot temps that will take the ac a long time to dissipate. You must keep the cabin as cool as you can unless you want to be
    buying a new hybrid battery.

    Btw, what did the dealer charge you to replace the combo meter the speedometer meter?
     
  4. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Highly unlikely replacement of the Combo Meter (Combination Meter: spedometer/odometer/tripmeter/gear indicator) resulted in the AC being inopperable. The dealer (assumed Toyota) would have had to disconnect the MFD (Multifunction Display): MPG, Hybrid Batter, Energy flow indicator, HVAC, Radio dispaly. You would have absolutely noticed a non-working MFD.

    It could be a bad inverter pump. But, that would have produced a warning light. OP can EASILY check the functional status of the inverter pump.
    1) open engine hood.
    2) make car IG-ON (foot OFF Brake) press START button twice. OR just make car READY (keep BRAKE pedal depressed, press START).
    3) Open inverter coolant reservoir (the off white container) between the air filter and the inverter (big silver square w/ Toyota emblem and "Hybrid Synergy Drive")
    4) Do you see fluid movement? It flows at a rate of a gentle stream; some call it "turbulence," but I feel that is a horrible description; to me turbulence = white water rapids, which the inverter pump does NOT produce. Flash light might help to see. If the area you are checking is quiet, you will hear what sounds like an aquarium pump. If you put your hand on the inverter coolant reservoir (the white opaque container), you might feel vibration (assuming engine is not running). NO FLUID MOVEMENT = dead inverter pump. REPLACE IMMEDIATELY!​

    HV Battery could be bad, but that would produce other tell tale signs/symptoms. Dash lights. Hearing HV fan in back. ...

    Absence of a bad inverter pump, I put my money on a leak in the AC system. This is easily verified w/ an AC manifold gauge set. Few shops are able to work on the Prius AC system, competently.

    Consider putting your actual location (home or work) instead of "Southern California". If you are concerned about privacy; lie and put a neighboring city if that will make you feel better. BTW, privacy does NOT exist! Big tech (FakeBook , Google, etc) selling your info to any/everyone. Experian data breech of 143million Americans (just under 1/2 of US population of approx 327million). All the other data breeches: Target, Home Depot, Orbitz, Marriot, LabQuest, LabCorp, and the many non-reported breeches. The criminals have your information (a little to a lot of it). If you used LinkedIn, you have been voluntarily giving out a lot of valuable info for the criminals to see.

    Given your screen name of "pasadena_comm"(ute), you live/work in "metropolitan" Los Angeles. Just contact member @Avi's Advanced Automotive. He has a shop near USC; competent and reputable, so you would be in very good hands.
    Hybrid Fix - 65 Reviews - Auto Repair - 3790 S Western Ave, Exposition Park, Los Angeles, CA - Phone Number - Yelp

    Let us know what turns up.
     
  5. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    We are just coming out of the part of the year when the prevailing winds push the marine layer inland and it is overcast and cool most of the time. "June gloom" in local parlance.

    No such noise and the car has not done anything to indicate a bad big battery.

    It was free. The car had a 90 day warranty as it was sold as "super checked out and reliable". (I don't recall the exact marketing term they used.) It has not been very reliable though: 12V was on death's door, combo display died, the A/C is now going. I'm hoping that the doors referred to by Leadfoot J. McCoalroller may be the issue - like the tech just forget to hook the power back up to one when they reassembled the dash. It is odd that the A/C used to work and then stopped after they performed a different service. Could just be a coincidence.

    Other replies - I will check out the inverter pump when I get home.

    Thanks all.
     
  6. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Don't hold the 12V battery against the Prius. A conventional car would burn through far more 12V batteries. Don't let any 12V battery experience a severe discharge event, to maximize its longevity. The longest I have heard of someone on the original 12V battery was 10years!

    Any car kept long enough (years/miles), parts will unfortunately wear out. Combo meter (bad design/capacitors) and AC aren't exempt. Unfortunately you are on the receiving end of these repairs since the car is 12years old. The earlier owner(s) would probably report very little trouble due to the car being young/low miles.
     
  7. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Found a video about that part and the electrical connector to it is easily accessed. Will check it out later, maybe it is not plugged in correctly.

    Thanks.
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If anyone asks, you never heard this from me, but it's covered in the repair manual. Starts with holding the AUTO and RECIRC buttons down while powering the car on.

    Lets you get a lot of information even more easily than digging down for possible bad connections.

    Speaking of connectors, pretty much all of them all over the car have latching mechanisms. The chance of one being not plugged in correctly is pretty low, unless it's been that way ever since the factory, or you have some knowledge of recent work in that area.
     
  9. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Agreed. The issue with the Prius is that it will work with a very weak 12V battery without giving any specific indication that the battery is going. The fuel economy did improve by 9mpg after the 12V was replaced, but poor fuel economy can be caused by many factors, with an old 12V battery being pretty far down the list.
     
  10. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

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    So this is the first time you mentioned poor gas mileage. What mileage are you currently getting?
     
  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Actually, a bad 12V is a very common cause of poor gas mileage in the Prius because it does so little work you don't know it's bad till it quits all together.

    As for the A/C, I would go the obvious route and check the freon first. That's the most usual cause of warm air coming out of it. And it will also kill your gas mileage. Make sure whoever checks the pressure uses gauges for hybrid car A/Cs. The oil from a regular A/C will damage your compressor.
     
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  12. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    47.8 mpg on the last tank (with only a little A/C use.) This is veering off topic, the weak battery low mpg thread was here:

    https://priuschat.com/threads/short-trip-tips.206000
     
  13. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

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    Veering off topic? How would a person that never saw that thread know about it? Plus the problem could be linked. Best of luck.
     
  14. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Ran that - code 21 only == solar detector. It was late in the day when I ran that, not much light and I would expect it to fail then. So that didn't tell me much other than that the A/C system does not know what is wrong. Or maybe these codes have short half lifes and I should wait until it is working poorly and then run this again?

    The cable to the blending unit was plugged in. Unplugged and replugged it - it clicked into place. Have to wait until it gets hot again to see if that makes any difference. (Probably not.)

    Did not have a chance to test the inverter pump, but since there was no warning light, probably not the issue.

    Hopefully it just needs a recharge, not completely unexpected in a 12 year old car.
     
  15. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Not all 12y/o cars need a recharge. My 2007 still blows cold and the HI and Low side are w/in specs; never recharged either.

    RULE OUT LEAKS! Otherwise you will be in the same position.

    Remember, the AC system is a closed system. What does that mean? A closed system by definition is closed: nothing in or out. However, in the real world, the automotive AC system can loose small amounts of refrigerant over time due to leaks (via seals), or massive amounts of refrigerant due to equipment failure, road debris damaging AC components, or vehicle accident(s).
     
  16. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    It was a bit warmer today, with the car's display showing 81F outside temperature. After driving about 20 minutes with the A/C on and the temp set low enough that the display read "Max Cold", in recirculate mode windows closed, the vent air was measured at 70F with an instant read thermometer. It was pretty stable at that temperature, only varying about 0.2 degrees F. That ain't right.

    Normally I have the radio on. Noticed today that when the A/C button is pushed there is an immediately about a 1 second long sound like a slide whistle going up. (Except a much much lower pitch than a common slide whistle.) When the A/C button is turned off there is a sound like the same deep pitched slide whistle going back down, also for about 1 second start to finish. Sounds like it is somewhere towards the passenger side of the dash, but I couldn't easily determine the actual location. My wife confirmed that it sounded like that. In between on and off there were no unusual noises, just the usual sort of blower noise.

    Anyway, the car has an appointment at the Toyota dealer for Monday to look into it. Will be avoiding driving it in the heat until then.
     
  17. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    They did an evacuate and refill. If it is leaking it was doing so too slowly for them to notice while they had it. So at the moment the A/C works again. I will be monitoring the outlet temperature periodically to see if it starts going up again. It was 43F today with an outside temperature of 91F with the car in the sun, which is acceptable. The work report quoted an outlet temperature in the high 30's but probably they tested it in the shade.
     
  18. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    This morning I noticed driving to work that the A/C outlet temperature was much cooler when the car was moving than when it was stopped. It was only around 75F outside at the time. Either the fan up front isn't going or it is leaking refrigerant. About 2 months since the refill, so my money is on a slow leak. That said, at the rate things have been breaking on this car a fan failure is a distinct possibility.
     
  19. Aegean

    Aegean Active Member

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    How much did the dealership charge for vacuum and refill?

    I changed my AC fan last year. It was working on and off towards the end but when the car was moving I was getting some air. Luckily, the part is fairly cheap and the work as easy as changing the cabin filter. Just a couple of screws and a plug. Maybe 30 min.

    I also added some refrigerant with a cheap refilling kit and waiting to see if I have a slow leak. Two weeks now still cold.
     
  20. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    It was free - the car was purchased with a 3 month warranty. That expired a week or two after the refill. At the time they said they didn't see any evidence of a leak so they just added some dye and refilled it. (It had a distinct air of "let's kick this can down the road".)

    Is it possible to check if that fan is working without taking too much of the front of the car apart?
    EDIT: I am assuming that the A/C has a separate fan for the condenser, that is the one I'm talking about. The blower fan inside the car works normally.
     
    #20 pasadena_commut, Aug 26, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019