Plug-In Hybrids Have No Future By Matt St-Pierre - June 26, 2019

I stopped reading after this; "Admittedly, I did not read the report given the $12,500 asking price but the fact that part of the conclusion touches on PHEVs is enough for me to elaborate on my opinion."

 

So this guy writes an article based on a report that he admits he has not read because he didn't want to pay for it. He seems to think that hybrid batteries only add weight to a car and have nothing to do with efficiency. And he calls himself an automotive journalist!

 

He's at least partially right, EV's are the future, no doubt about it, but for that to happen, we've got to get a LOT more infrastructure out there and FAST charging. Until then, EV's are limited in range unless you have all the time in the world and live in a place that has a lot of chargers. I don't, so a PHEV is infinitely more versatile and cheaper to own.

 

"smoke in mirrors"

Soo.. not much of a regular journalist either?

 

You wanted what? Hard driving investigative reporting?


Unsupervised!
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Wow!

His experiences definitely don't align with mine. He even poo-poos the idea as: "When the battery is depleted, after 50 km, for example, your gasoline engine takes over and not only must it provide forward motion for the vehicle, it must carry hundreds of kilograms of batteries, negatively affecting fuel consumption, until the next charge. Whatever brief advantage you may get from your EV range, it is quickly be negated in real-world usage." Hundreds of kilos?!! Try 80 Kilos, NOT hundreds. Negative affects on fuel consumption? How about HV mode giving some of us (me) 55+ mpg until recharged to then give 999.9 mpg (with the warmer weather we've been getting 30-32 miles from an overnight charge). I thought that perhaps it was an old article referring to plug-in hybrids of a few years ago, but nope... published June 26, 2019.

Sorry Matt, but having owned hybrids for over a dozen years and, especially with the Prime, that fulfill my needs to a tee, I respectfully disagree with your death knell proclamation.

 

Admittedly, I did not read the article, but the fact that some of the comments here touch on PHEVs is enough for me to elaborate on my opinion.

I live in the Colorado front range next to the mountains. The large battery pack in the prime has the unique advantage of being able to recover a huge amount of energy on the way down from the mountains. Recently I drove from my house most of the way up trail ridge road in Rocky mountain national park, then to Brainard lake then back home. That's about 120 miles and 12,000 feet of total elevation gain (since the route goes up and down a few large hills. The starting elevation is 5200 feet and the highest point was around 11,000 feet.) But I was able to do that drive on around 1 gallon of gas. I started with a full charge, and I had more than 60% charge left by the time I got home, so I used less than 3 KWh of electricity. A pure EV could possibly do as well or better, but that requires a much larger more expensive battery pack.

Another time I drove up Mt Evans (14,000 feet). I don't know how much gas I used on the way up, but on the way down I got up to 80% charge and was able to drive 60 miles in EV mode starting from the summit with an empty battery.

Obviously mountain driving doesn't apply for most people most of the time, but it's a unique situation where the prime is much more efficient than a standard hybrid.

Finally, since EV mode covers most around town driving, HV mode is usually used on longer highway trips where the extra weight of the battery is almost irrelevant. If anything the dead weight of the engine, fuel, and exhaust most of the time is more of a problem. But the car is so efficient in EV mode that even that doesn't seem to matter. The prime is more efficient than most pure EVs despite the extra weight from being a PHEV. Maybe because pure EVs have even more weight in the form of a larger battery. A prime without the ICE components is theoretically more efficient, but with only around 30 miles of range it's not a practical car for most people.

 

What are you saying, he’s not allowed to mix the different PHEV technologies like the BMW i3 REX batteries with the 1.5 L engine found in the Gen 2 Prius? How’s he going to get the views needed?

You mean you can’t just cherry pick facts and make something up?


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Also, I think PHEV makes a lot of sense for larger vehicles where adding a big enough battery pack to make it a pure EV is cost prohibitive. I still want a 4runner with similar specs and price point as the Pacifica hybrid. People want to buy big vehicles, so might as well make them efficient. The RAV4 hybrid and Crosstrek hybrid are close, but not quite big or rugged enough for what I'd use it for. And the Outlander PHEV is really inefficient for some reason. I'm sure Toyota could do better! But it has to be really off road capable with a real 4WD system, not a Highlander hybrid. If they don't come up with something, I think I read a rumour that Jeep will make a hybrid soon.

 

It's the same old nonsense we saw when hybrids were new. There was a constant onslaught of attacks all attempting to mislead about future by implying all worked the same way. It took quite awhile to finally gather up enough convenient online material to easily disprove & discredit those source. Some were rather relentless, doing everything they possibly could to undermine progress. That's why I've been building up a collection of driving videos, each showing in depth detail to show their claims are a load of crap.

It's sad that PHEV are being attacked by EV supporters, but no surprise. Our owner's group here liked to mock me, but in in a friendly manner... knowing my effort was to promote lithium-battery use for any type of automotive propulsion. For us, it's all about getting the most out of whatever plug you have available. We have honest exchanges about how each of our designs operate... which is a far cry from this article. Ugh.

The video I filmed yesterday captures detail about kWh consumption for a continuous drive using up the entire EV capacity. That trip of just a little over 30 miles using only electricity is great, but this article draws attention to the HV aspect. I'll have to do a fresh capture (now I add commentary) with a long drive using nothing but gas. That MPG is always impressive.

 

he's mixing some truth with a lot of falsehoods or misconceptions. no one knows the future.

my bet is phev's are another bridge following hybrids. how long is the bridge to full ev? hard to say, but his suggestion to lease so you won't get burned is pure nonsense.

otoh, if some are buying at 5k off, and others at 10-15k, there will be winners and losers in the depreciation game.

 

He seems to be based in the UK. People drive less in Europe than in the US. So the point at which BEVs work for the majority is lower there than here. Public transit is also more robust, giving better options for the times a BEV won't work. So PHEVs may have shorter life there.

PHEVs do have higher maintenance costs. Compared to a BEV, there is the cost of supporting the entire ICE system added. The EV system isn't going add much compared to an ICE car. Instead, the EV use can result in the cost for the ICE being higher than a non-plug in when factoring in the amount of use the engine actually undergoes. This is true for the Prime as Toyota uses the same maintenance schedule for the engine no matter if the car is a PHEV, hybrid, or ICE.

 

but stating that 25 miles is pointless, and you'll get terrible mpg's but to the anchor are both misleading, europe or anywhere

 

Yeah, he is biased and wrong on things.

I just saw this as a good place to point out that PHEVs aren't all pluses. There are a few downsides to them in comparison to a BEV or non-plug in.

The report he didn't buy might be interesting to read.

 

No doubt electric vehicles are the future...but a lot has to happen until that occurs.

For now, PHEVs ( and hybrids to a lesser extent ) are the best compromise for many people until the next battery breakthrough and/or better charging infrastructure happens.

 

What happens when electric rates sky rocket and petro plummets in price as a result of changing demand. What is the alternative to a fully electric vehicle. Seems logically to me to have both options.

 

I tend to agree. We are in a period of change...for who knows how long. Why not go with a vehicle that has options like a PHEV...