Mac OS ready for prime time?

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/features/m...price/index.php

 

Hi Daniel...

Just to chime in - I'm very much of a like mind as your friend. I've been using personal computers since '82, and developing commercial software since '89 or so. I've developed on LOTS of different machines from 370 mainframes to Palms, cell phones and Windows Mobile.
I hated Macs up until OS 9. I now have a Powerbook G4, a (dead) iBook G3, a Gentoo server, Redhat FC5 on an Alienware m7700 laptop, a Windows XP 2.4ghz desktop and an XP Toshiba laptop. The only reason that I have the Windows laptop around is that my music-production computer, and it's about to get nixed for a Mac too - probably a Mac Pro (running Cubase SX 4 when it's released along with some Yamaha mLan based hardware and a TC Powercore, if anyone's interested... ). In my experience, OS X has a greater ease of use than XP, the reliability of Linux and an ease of use that surpasses anything i've used so far.
I do disagree with earlier statements about Macs being memory hogs - I've not experienced that - but then again, I don't think I've run a machine with less than a gig in several years.
IMO, the only reason to go for a PC is to save money.

There IS one single thing that REALLY annoys me about Mac OS X - that you can't use the keyboard to quickly navigate the application and window menus. Yep, that's about it.

Oh - for iPod integration on Linux - try Amarok. I don't have an iPod, but it works with all my coworker's iPods on my Fedora box. If you're using Ubuntu or Fedora or another "crippled" distro (RIAA laws and distribution of mp3 codecs it might not show up out of the box, but try googling for "codec mp3 livna" and you'll on the way to finding the keys to "heal" your distro...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveSheremata @ Sep 5 2006, 09:35 PM) [snapback]314998[/snapback]</div>

Correction, the reliablity of BSD with a Mach kernel.

If you've worked with Fedora Core, or such, and the confusion of multiple vendor distributions, you wouldn't be talking about reliablity.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Sep 6 2006, 02:32 AM) [snapback]315044[/snapback]</div>

Dude! I've been doing commercial HA distributed software for over a decade

Oh.. I've had my share.. Some Bozos at work were trying to plug in 32bit ldap modules into pamd on a 64bit RH enterprise clustered machine (HP being the other "vendor")... of course it fails, but can you IMAGINE how badly XP would barf on that?

I know a couple of guys who were on the Mach cvs... IMHO, it was incredible in the day, but it's more like status quo now adays.

Ok, on with the punch card stories....

Cheers!
Dave

 

I am a long time Mac user. I got my first 128k Feb 29 1984 and have not looked back. OS X is a real improvement and now that we are on 10.4 the system is even better. I got a MacBook Pro and have installed BootCamp. I run XP on the flip side for the 2 programs that I can not get to run on my Mac. Norm's CAN View programing flasher and a program I need to get logged on to he hospital through a VPN. I had a cheepo Windoz box and now it is all on my Mac. Mac's are not definatly more expensive when you compair all the options. You can buy a Windoz box for less in a stripped down mode, Apple does not sell anything like that. Look at the new 64bit duel core iMac's. Ready for the new OS X when it is out.

 

Windows isn't ready for prime time, so switching to Mac OS isn't going to be any worse.

Mac OS X is based on Unix. Unix is the most solid, stable and time-tested OS available for any computer costing less than $10,000. The only more "ready for prime time" OSs are z/OS and AS/400, so unless you're going to buy a mainframe or minicomputer, Unix is as ready as it gets.

Basically, you have two primary choices in desktop computing: Windows or Unix. Both have various flavors available. On the Unix side you have Solaris, Mac OS X, various flavors of Linux, and so on. On the Windows side you have XP, 2000, Vista, XP Pro, 2003 Server, CE, and so on.

OS X is the prettiest Unix, and has the most applications (not least because almost everything that runs on Linux will also run on OS X). It's unclear whether it's the most popular Unix desktop, as it's hard to measure how many Linux machines are out there, but web stats suggest that there are more Mac users browsing the web than Linux users.

 

FWIW, here is my story of how I got to my current MAC.

Way back, I think it was the early to middle 80’s, I had a Apple II clone, called LAZER. Yes, I spelled that right.

It had a separate monitor, that I think was big and bulky, and only displayed the color green. Anyway, that was my first computer...well, no, not quite. I just remembered I had a TRS-80...

Anyway...so, where was I? Oh yeah..Okay, so I had that Trash 80 for a while, then I got the Lazer, and then, I got my first real PC, a 286.

Well, that one I managed to upgrade and upgrade, until, about 15 years after I first got it, I had to replace it. So I did, with a Gateway HP XP Media Center, and that was/is a super keen computer. So keen, that I am giving it away (I did a ‘factory’ reinstall to the thing, which erases all your files, and returns the machine to the way it came out of the box.)

And then a bit later, I got a Gateway Laptop, which, I can’t say was good at all. I mean, it was at first, but then it just died on me. All the way. Kaput. Dead Jim, you get the picture? Which really sucked since it was so young. Well, as luck would have it, I was talking to my big brother Bob about that, who told me that what I really needed was a Apple iMac. This intrigued me. I have always liked Apples, but frankly, in the world of Windows, I was not sure that Apple would cut it. I knew they had a better (and more stable) OS then MicroSquish, but I also know my way around XP, and to be really fair, I had not been having any problems with my PC based computers. However, I owed my brother, in a way, since I had influenced him to buy a new Prius, to look into it.

I got this one, a iMac with a 20-inch widescreen LCD with 1680x1050 resolution, a 2.0GHz Intel Core Duo with 2MB shared L2 cache, 2G of memory, a 250GB Serial ATA hard drive, Slot-load 8x double-layer SuperDrive, a ATI Radeon X1600 graphics with 128MB GDDR3 memory, built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0, with a Apple Remote. All iMac models also feature: three USB 2.0 ports, two FireWire 400 ports, built-in AirPort Extreme wireless networking, Gigabit Ethernet, mini-DVI video out, built-in stereo speakers, a built-in microphone, and audio in/out jacks.

And it all sits on my desk with out taking up much space. Now, I was going to leave this alone, and be all happy with my HP XP Media Center out in the main living room, but I went to Apple on Saturday, and well, I got a Mini Mac.

So, now in the house, two Apples, one PC, and one laptop.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(metamatic @ Sep 7 2006, 09:33 AM) [snapback]315767[/snapback]</div>

I hate to keep bashing this point, but although you may already know this, credit goes to where credit is due.

OS X is based on probably the same time-tested Mach OS kernel that Jobs and NeXT used and has been continuing to develop since. This kernel is surrounded by much that is derived from FreeBSD 5.x, a direct descendant of the original USL UNIX, and the BSD lineage that created the reference tcp/ip stack that makes the Internet possible today. [FreeBSD is currently in version 6.1, is entirely free, and continues to be developed.]

This BSD layer called Darwin provides basic core file, network, and security support. On top of this is CoreFoundation, the remnants of their failed in-house next generation OS, from OS9, called Rhapsody mixed with the API derived from NeXTStep now called Cocoa, and a C-based API containing the old Toolbox and the new CoreFoundation APIs called Carbon.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(metamatic @ Sep 7 2006, 09:33 AM) [snapback]315767[/snapback]</div>

What about QNX (used in some ATMs), or VxWorks that used in the Mars Pathfinders?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(metamatic @ Sep 7 2006, 09:33 AM) [snapback]315767[/snapback]</div>

And various flavors of BSD unless you can point out some reasons why it doesn't belong in the lineup besides marketshare. BSD had working usb, bluetooth, and wireless support before any of the Linux flavors, although it continues to be a leapfrog game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(metamatic @ Sep 7 2006, 09:33 AM) [snapback]315767[/snapback]</div>

By simple market penetration numbers, Macs, since OS X, are the most popular UNIX desktop, and the largest installed base of BSD.

Some of this harping is due to Linux revisionism and ignorance where some deny the significance/existance of other UNIX flavors with many more years of refinement and engineering that predate Linux but without Linux's PR machine. It's the equivalent of denying there is any other significant computer/os/cpu combination existing today besides Wintel.

 

As an IT Pro myself, I'm kind of envious of those with MACs. Everything I have ever heard about Apple is positive. Their support is stellar, and hardware quality seems to be excellent as well. These days it is hard to recommend anything to anyone. Gateway and Dell have taken big dips in quality - both hardware and support. One thing you can say about Apple is that they've always had a good support rep.

If I had the money (and since I already have a laptop and PC) I would buy a Mac Laptop. For the average user, you will not find many issues in going with a Mac. To be honest, a PC tech is going to have more issues switching over - just because the interfaces can be so different. If anything, Apple is a much more innovative company than Microsoft, so their OSes will always be a little more cutting edge.

 

I would count up how many macs my house has hosted over the past 20 years, but I have to go to work in a couple of hours, so not enough time.

Wife: moving to OS X was a chore, and she AINT moving again, damnit.
Daughter: It's aesthetic, has launchBar and photoshop, and works.
Me: No MS, no viruses, no crashes. Cool shareware. LaunchBar !
Son: wants a windows box to play video games. Tough

 

I started using Macs while a student at the University of Utah in 1987. It only took one quarter to see that the graphical user interface and that strange little mouse was the way to go (for me). I've been using Macs at home ever since.

The other half of my life -- the one at work -- requires that I perform all my business on PCs.

My verdict: Each platform has it's strengths and weakensses. Why pay several hundered to several thousand dollars more for a Macintosh when I simply want to write memos, run spreadsheets, and communicate using email. Windows-based machines work very well for these kinds of functions. But if I want to work with graphics images, do some page layout, create movies from the desktop and share it all in a professional-looking DVD format then I'd say the Mac is the way to go, hands-down.

If someone were to point to two machines, the first a Windows machine and the second a Macintosh, and say they were mine to use, I'd nuzzle up to the Macintosh and glance over at the Windows machine on the rare occasion when the Mac won't fulfill my needs.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Sep 5 2006, 01:23 PM) [snapback]314647[/snapback]</div>

I guess I don't know what you mean I use MS Office 2004 on my Mac every day. Now Outlook/Entourage is kind of crippled but I use a real contact/email/calendar app Now Contact & Up To Date.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveSheremata @ Sep 5 2006, 11:35 PM) [snapback]314998[/snapback]</div>

What keyboard are you using? You can actually use the function keys and right mouse click, (hold control), but yes in general it just isn't the same.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas @ Sep 6 2006, 02:43 PM) [snapback]315345[/snapback]</div>

Absolutely! But this is like only the last 2-3 years.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Sep 7 2006, 01:27 PM) [snapback]315835[/snapback]</div>

Thanks NuShrike, that is an incredible statement in and of itself. Makes you wonder why Apple/Jobs doesn't capitalize on this endgame or do you think there's more dollars per advertising bucks to go for MS's throat directly? It seems to me that there would be more migration to apple if the IT people are sold and writing proposals, yada, yada, eh?

OK, enough commenting on other posts, I'm entering the chat late here. I'm a dedicated Mac user for the last six years, LAN between work and home, etc. But I'm slightly bleak on the Mac future, here's why Intel chips and phones.
Intel chips - like someone posted starting with 10.3 Mac software has been RAM bloated just like the complaints about MS stuff, this concerns me that moving to Intel might signal a cultural shift in the software developers mindset, which inevitably seems to be bad for consumers, e.g., constant upgrading to new systems new OS releases, etc. This to me can be counter productive for the longevity side of the Mac user base.
phones - unless Jobs has something up his sleeve, the hottest phones, smartphones and camera phones are from Nokia and Sony/Ericsson, they don't even attempt to make Mac compatible software and over the net upgrades hasn't come of age.

Any who, all that to say I'm sold on Apple (stock too), but these seem to be signs of cultural shift that concern me.

 

Macs rule!

I've never used anything but a Mac except once when I was out of the country I had to get a kid to show me how to use a PC enough to get an email sent to back home. I'm using the high resolution powerbook - the last release before they went to the Intel innards.

The Mac OS just gets smoother and more user friendly with each new upgrade. Husband also has a powerbook, 29 year old daughter has an iBook, and there's an iMac in the living room for whoever's laptop doesn't work. We love our Macs.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Claudia @ Sep 8 2006, 08:18 PM) [snapback]316681[/snapback]</div>

Wait. I love Macs, so you know, but you said, "there's an iMac in the living room for whoever's laptop doesn't work."

Doesn't that line make it sound like the laptops break a lot??

 

I work as a hardware engineer for a Very Large computer company (not Apple).

I hate screwing with computers at home. They should work like cars: just drive 'em. I've used a Mac at home for two years and it's been dead easy. And, hey, you can boot the current Macs in Windows (which you provide) when necessary. So unless you have to absolutely minimize the purchase price (but how likely is that for a Prius owner, eh?), I'd say the decision is a complete no-brainer. Get a Mac.

 

I just spent 3 hours wrestling with my Mac -- and it wasn't really even the OS's fault.

Permisssions. Ughh.

The OS does it right, but 3rd party programs contradict each other some times with shared folders, and tracking that down is a *huge* PITA.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Sep 9 2006, 01:32 PM) [snapback]317027[/snapback]</div>

Right on! My issue hasn't been permissions today, but trying to push my older mac past its limits, I upgraded to 10.4 on a 400Mhz Pismo G3, 1GB RAM, and dude I'm flirting with disaster once a day now, of course disaster for me is the "rainbow pinwheel of death" LOL. I've seen "not responding" so often, well, it's a drag ...

But still it is clearly my fault.

Now on my wife's PowerBook G4 no problem, one can have 5 programs processing simultaneously and she seldom gets the pinwheel.

I'll be at the Apple store tomorrow drooling over the new 24" iMac

 

Berylrb, you are a brave soul trying to run OS X on a G3, even with copious memory.

A bit more information on my earlier post: My program installer kept quitting with the non-descript error message "file error." I have seen enough of this sort of thing to realize the installer was trying to write into a folder it did not have permissions for, but WHICH ONE ?? Perhaps there is an installer or system log that can pinpoint it, but I usually do not know where to look for it, unless the installer is well written and offers up a dialog box with an offer to review a log. This headache is compounded by a large degree of non-comformity in where programs stash their support folders and files.

In the end, while reading through the help site of the program I was trying to install, I found the answer.

In a bit of irony, the folder was used to autoupdate my PDA, and it had been closed off by ... APPLE's iSync !!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Sep 11 2006, 08:53 AM) [snapback]317658[/snapback]</div>

I had a problem similar, but I didn't know it was permissions based, or not, conduit issues. Syncing and iSync is definitely a problem, but not enough IMHO to stop the OP from 'upgrading' to a Mac.

My understanding from reading is that 'he who can eliminate the syncing bottlenecks' is really the one with the next killer app!

For instance, I use iSync to sync my address book to my Nokia 6682. I use You Synchronize, which just went into hibernation waiting for the next release for 10.4, to sync my folders across my LAN. I use Now Contact & Up to Date (NUDC) to sync my contacts and calendar across the LAN and to my Palm TX. WHYYYYYYY?

Why can't all of these app's just get along? iSync doesn't do folders, albeit I could do something with .Mac I believe. iCal and Address Book aren't robust enough for my database needs, thus, NUDC. And my TX won't bluetooth to my Nokia, thus iSync. Now You Syncronize is acting buggy since upgrading to 10.4.7, it has to be the 'on top' application or it gets the "pinwheel of death".

Yeah, I guess I'm brave! My other computers are fine with 10.4.7 it's just that my Pismo is the office at home computer for me, and it is the oldest, but faithful. But it appears to be RAM bottlenecks, for instance, dashboard works great so does spotlight!