Plumbing repair

When our original garbage disposal rusted out nearly two decades ago, I elected to not replace it, just re-plumb the sink with a standard drain. The original had not been chopping up waste finely enough to avoid clogging the immediate drain, so I was needing to disassemble the under-sink pipes several times a year for clearing. Modifications to the problematic T-joint where not fully successful, plus I feared eventually getting a clog further down the pipe or in the side sewer, risking a far more expensive problem.

The spouse had already acquired a nice countertop compost bucket, so we began composting everything in earnest. Or now, since the cat brought in a half dozen baby rats, ceasing putting any kitchen waste in the compost pile, instead putting it all into the yard waste bin, where the city sends it for mulching and composting. No more clogged pipes since.

Now, many utilities are raising alarms about kitchen FOG -- Fats, Oils, Grease -- clogging pipes all along the sewer system: sewer mains (utility responsibility), house pipes (customer responsibility), and the side sewers connecting them (also the customer's responsibility). Cleaning and repairs are expensive. One of our local utilities recommends discontinuing use of and even removing those in-sink disposals (emphasis added):

"RESIDENTS
Tips to keep your drains fat-free:

• Pour cooled fats, oils and grease into a container and put the container in the trash.
• Before washing, use your paper napkin or a paper towel to wipe FOG from dishes and dispose of it in the yard waste cart
• Use sink strainers to catch food waste
• Put food scraps in yard waste cart
• Disconnect and stop use of in-sink garbage disposals which flush food and FOG into sewers"

 

When I replaced the garbage disposal during a redo of my kitchen sink a couple years ago, I took the opportunity to make the disposal clog resistant. The big constriction after the garbage disposal is the baffled T between the horizontal and vertical pipes. It looks like this in cross section:

That constriction is what causes clogs after grinding a lot of potato peels, or other similar clogging materials.

I avoided using that baffled T by rerouting the pipes using separate P-traps for each basin. First I added a Y to the pipe exiting the wall. In my case, I needed to shorten that pipe exiting the wall a bit with a hacksaw, then I used ABS glue to glue in the Y. The other parts were just hand tightened p-traps and a few other off-the-self angled pipe. It looked like this when I finished. This photo is borrowed off the web. Mine looks very similar, though I installed a deep, 70/30 sink with garbage disposal installed higher up under the smaller, shallower basin:



The end result is an uncloggable garbage disposal.

 

The first failure happened on the hot side coming off the water heater. The PEX bent slightly into the wall and thru the wooden frame of the house.

The second failure happened a week after the first under the kitchen sink cold side. The leak was at the bend, inside the wall, going to the angle valve.

The third failure happened several months after the first on the cold side master bath. The leak was at the bend inside the wall.

The fourth, and most recent, was a couple weeks ago on the same hot side PEX off the water heater. This one was the trickiest to get to being that the pipe extended upward, into the ceiling. This was the only leak that didn't occur on a bend radius. Several inches north of the first leak, I had to cut a hole in the garage ceiling to access it.

Opening up the garage ceiling was beneficial because I discovered a lot of usable square footage up there. The way my second story slopes down to my first, there is a lot of space that can be developed; probably about a hundred and fifty square feet. I've always wanted a secret room; the kind that requires a pull from a book in a bookshelf. ​

 

Are you saying the PEX itself was bent to route? Not just run straight and into brass couplings for the angles?

 

Yes

 

Yikes. The way that it doesn't even hug the metal minimum bending radius bracket means it was most likely just "strong-armed" into place. Not heated and bent. Couple that with the minimum bends, and how it looks kind of oblique, that's not good. If that's all throughout the house, that's installer error not material error.

 

Yep...tick, tick, tick.

Perhaps you're right and they strong armed the bend (not like Beckham). That doesn't explain the other two leaks with hardly no bend at all.

 

When I have seen it done, one foot is used to step on the PEX roll (it comes rolled up generally) and the tube comes up to arm height where it is then wrangled. with creases and dings. Basically they have no idea what they're doing but, hey it will work long enough to get them paid and out of there. The poor installation quality shown in the image speaks to the poor quality of the installers which means who knows what happened in the rest of the house or how the material was treated before it was even installed.

 

@2k1Toaster

Are you a plumber?

 

No.

I've done lots of plumbing work for my own houses and have been intimately involved with replumbing a few homes. Did architectural work for a while and was on construction sites with open walls for fun. I have lots of stupid hobbies.

 

Some Pex pipe history in the article in the attachment. Sometimes we think of Pex as new technology. It has been used successfully in Europe since the 1960's. In many areas Pex is the piping of choice in all new construction. I thought this article might be interesting and informing to someone who things Pex is new technology.

PEX Tubing: Myths and Facts

note: Pex tubing that has been exposed to sun can sustain damage!

 

I bet you do.

Being as it may be anecdotal your opinion is still appreciated. I'm not sold on that particular theory.

From the matching defective batch codes, to the corresponding time frame when my house was built, the evidence is pointing in a different direction.

 

Hi Bob,
Isn't it amazing how creative we 60 somethings can get when it comes to home repairs that require moving, lifting or securing "heavy" objects? Bravo for using a car floor jack and a box!!

 

I observe PEX recommended bend radii, but I've never heated it to bend it.

 

@Greenteapri I'll just tell my story and you can see if it rings any bells with your pex stuff. If no bells at least I get another of my issues off my chest.

My water heater started dripping out the pressure safety valve on top of the water heater a couple weeks ago.
It wasn't really positively evident what the issue was so I let it ride and kept putting bigger and bigger buckets under the safety value drain pipe. When the biggest tub I had with an even taller waste bin inside it overflowed onto the floor I figured I needed a new pressure safety value and picked one up for $20 at the same place I got my last one 10 years ago. I tend to chatter a lot and I think I bored the two guy at the plumbing supply warehouse with what I think is a trick install of copper unions above the dielectric nipples installed in the water heaters cold water input and hot water output. I'm not a professional plumber but I like to pick they're brains for ideas that make sense to me in my set of circumstances. Anyways.
I had been thinking occasionally about the thermal expansion tank I'd install 20 years ago when I replace the water heater with the same symptoms of a leaky safety pressure valve in the brand new water heater, the thermal expansion tank was recommended by a plumber at the supply warehouse. My thermal expansion tank came pre-charged with 20lbs air pressure in the air chamber half of the tank. When I refitted the copper for the expansion tank and installed it, it fixed my leaking pressure safety valve. So While working on at least 10 other project at the same time I thought I'd better check the air pressure in the thermal expansion tank. When I finally got around to checking that (it's almost exactly like checking the tire pressure on the Prius) I found water in the air chamber of the tank.

It was time and shut off the water service and drain the lines in the basement ( as I'm writing this I'm realizing that I should have drained the houses entire water system), because as I unscrewed the expansion tank from the copper, when it unscrewed completely is fell to the floor with about 10 gals of water still in it, that I'd thought I'd drained out of it.

Anyways, I priced a new tank and while reading another thread here at PC about flat tires, I thought to myself why not learn about the Primes flat tire fixing thing and the not so nice problems that arise after injecting the tires with the goo.

I got some slime at walmart and after getting as much water out of the tank as I could in 2 days of shaking and flipping it around I put the slime the water half of the tank to get both sides of the rubber blatter in the middle of the tank. Low and behold the slime stays liquid and came back out of the tank even after two days. It just kept draining out like it came out of it's original slime plastic container.

The wife started complaining about no hot water since I was now shutting off the cold water inlet to the water heater whenever it was not being used to reduce back-pressure and my having to mop up the basement floor. Than having to turn it back on every time she needed to shower.

So I said to myself freak it and put the slime in the air side of the tank and crossed my fingers filled it with what I estimated was 20 lbs air pressure and screwed it back in place. I turned on the water service and kept my fingers crossed

So far so good. Oh wait a second. I see another flood on the basement floor the next morning after running the washing machine the night before. I start mopping it up and looking for the location of the leak. Sure enough it was the washing machine this time.
So I pull the body panels off the washing machine and see the water inlet tube on the inside of the hot cold solenoid completely off it fitting. I bless the plumbing gods cause it's a very simple fix for me since I've had the washing apart and repaired several times already. The biggest issue was mopping up the flooded basement floor again.
Washing machine repaired and rusty spots repainted, put back together and everything seems good again fingers crossed.....
Now I'm wondering how much $ a plumber would have charged us to do what I have done these last two weeks ?
I can only imagine how much a new, 20 year old water heater and thermal expansion tank, and a washing machine repair would have cost us if we had contracted it out.

I have another dueseie about the bathroom remodel. Maybe next year thought.

 

For some reason, although I had never had difficulty mounting a disposal before, the last time I did so (but one, see below), it gave me fits. I don't know why.

Then some time after that, poking around a hardware store, I saw a Dr. Disposal tool:

I didn't buy it right away, but I did think "gosh, I should have one of those."

Strangely, I did have the disposal out again just recently, so I could do headstands under the sink to replace the side sprayer hose, and mounting it again gave me no trouble at all, even though I never had bought the cool tool, and it's the same disposal and same sink and everything that I had struggled with the last time. And that last time had been my first and only time it seemed to be a struggle. I'm not sure what I did differently.

 

Had a similar experience with a disposal in the same day - the first time I installed it went in fine - I was disappointed with one aspect of the install project, took it out corrected the piping and then had a surprisingly hard time reinstalling the disposal again. What I did should not have affected the actual install of the disposal.

 

Love that video!

 

I got a notification on this thread. I noticed it is an old (4 years old) thread, I must have commented on it at one time. Yep, I sure did. back in the first page.

No disposal under our sink. But I still wonder what I asked in my original comment 4 years ago??? Any real data on this?