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Confession

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by ronlewis, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    I should have told y'all when I first joined - I'm a screw up. Over on the Ford Diesel forum, my exploits are legendary. My username there is Bonehead, and it's well earned.

    Sooo, how can I screw up a simple wheel bearing job, you may wonder? Do not underestimate me.

    Recall that I couldn't get the hub off by beating the drive shaft, so I borrowed a gear puller from the auto parts and it came off easily.

    BUT, I couldn't tell which size gear puller and the smallest one looked like it would work. And it did, except that I couldn't get it quite centered in the drive shaft. I should have gotten the next size up. But, I got it to catch on the lip around the center hole of the shaft, and without too much effort, it pulled the hub off.

    I take it to the machine shop and $60 later (either you got a deal at $30, Mr. Chapman, or I got hosed) I have it back with the new bearing pressed in.

    As I start assembling it, the new axle nut doesn't want to thread on. Examining it, apparently the gear puller bunged up the threads. There's a nice round indention in the end of the axle that caused the first couple of threads to bulge up. Amazing to me that the metal could be that soft - again, I didn't have to crank hard on the gear puller to get the hub off, and I shouldn't have had to. But the indention looks like a drill bit did it, or like it came that way from the factory.

    So, I file on them to remove the bulge and clean the threads, and I get the nut started, seemingly evenly. It only goes a few threads before it gets tough though. I take it off, clean everything, turn it back and forth a few times trying to get past the snag. Still tough, so I get the original nut and try it. It goes further, most of the way to the top of the nut, very easily. So, I figure the threads on the new nut are painted and just need to cut through once.

    Meanwhile, the hub itself does not go on all the way to the axle boot. I figure the nut has to pull it down and that's what's making it so hard to thread. So, I commit. I put the new nut back on and start cranking. It looks even, seems to be going on straight, and I get it on past the top of the nut by maybe 1/2".

    Then, it just gets too hard to turn. It can't be that tough. So I pull it back off, and the axle threads are all chewed up. Threads inside the nut are broken off.

    The hub never did pull down. I put a socket over the shaft and beat it on farther, thinking it was causing the nut to strip out, but now the nut won't even go back on. And it's still not quite seated all the way.

    I'm not sure where I went wrong exactly. I've bunged up threads before and still got them to recut, and these were not messed up bad and only on the first or second thread. I really expected they'd work just fine.

    I wonder if the auto supply gave me a nut with the wrong threads. I just compared the exterior dimensions - it looked exactly the same, and being a unique nut, just assumed the threads were right.

    I'm also assuming that there's not anything keeping the shaft from pulling on farther, except the same friction that makes it hard to pull off. I think the socket I was using to beat it on simply bottomed out. But it all has to come back off now, so I quit messing with it. The axle looked fairly oily, but maybe I could have put some more grease on it to help it on. Just can't see how that would have bunged up the threads though.

    So, now I get to replace the drive shaft. Question for the audience before y'all go fetch some popcorn for Part 2 of this comedy show: are the drive shafts reversible from side to side? I want to grab one off my parts car, but the passenger side, if you recall, has one broken lug nut that won't let me take the rotor off. Will the axle shaft from the driver's side work? IIRC, that shaft is two pieces - can I just remove the outside piece and leave the other on the car?
     
  2. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    Well, I can't tell from reading the service manual. It describes removal of the entire drive shaft, and the entire LH is different than the entire RH, but I can't tell whether the outside shaft segments are the same or different. And the process described only addresses removal of the outside shaft after the entire shaft is removed, not whether the entire shaft has to be removed to swap out just the outside shaft. Has anyone messed with these before?
     
  3. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    OK, not seeing exactly what I need in the service manual. Looks like I have to swap out the entire drive shaft, but that's ok. Just can't quite tell how to remove it.

    Assuming that I have knuckle off and shaft hanging free, where do I go from there? I think I need to drain the transaxle fluid first. Do I need to unclamp the inside boot and slide it back? What holds the axle in the transaxle? From reading, it sounds like it just slides out - do I need to mark anything so it aligns properly going back? I'm thinking that I can just swap out the entire axle and not mess with separating the inside and outside shafts.

    I got the wheel off my parts car, but the stump of that rusted lug nut is holding the rotor on. In theory, that nut would not be tightened down against the rotor, so it should unscrew easily if I can get it started. Going to go soak it now and get my hammer/chisel ready. Worse case, I can just break the lug off.
     
  4. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    Hi Ron! Sounds like you are just the type who isn't afraid to try it on your own. So what if you mess up. As long as you can afford the fixes, you learn as you go. Sounds like you got it down now. Don't be afraid to show photos as you go on your next project. It helps us to give you advice as you do it. That's how I learned how to do a lot from Priuschat.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    They were also 2013 dollars, and Indiana ain't a high-rent state.

    I don't know the answer, but I will say your story has only reinforced my usual feeling that, even if $7.71 feels like a lot for a dumb nut at the dealer, it could still save me from feeling like a dumb nut myself.

    That bothers me ... those splines are supposed to fit very intimately, but I don't think they're supposed to be a forcible fit. Getting the shaft out of the hub may require surprising any rust on it a little, but slipping it back in shouldn't be that much work.

    There was a recent discussion on that very point, and if I remember right, the upshot was that the outer stub shafts are indeed the same. But to swap them around, you'd need to disassemble the CV boots and joints, and reassemble them, with the proper crimp bands, and the proper tool for crimping the bands (and if I remember that right, there were even two flavors of band used, requiring different types of crimp tool, so you need to know which type you've got).

    Edit: also, I do not know how the CV joints are assembled at the factory: whether the insides and outsides are all of completely uniform dimensions and freely interchangeable, or whether they use a statistical process of matching up pairs that fit best. I know manufacturers have used both approaches.
     
    #5 ChapmanF, Oct 9, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  6. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    I'm having a run of stuff breaking the last couple of weeks - including my camera. Dang batteries corroded inside. You say "not afraid," I say "doesn't know any better," lol. Mostly, I'm just too cheap and too broke.

    Don't quite have it down yet. Still don't know how to take that drive shaft out of the transaxle. The manual just seems to describe it magically falling out once you remove the boot. Need to get this one running so I can sell it, which will probably take a while as well.

    If I'm lucky, the one from my flood car is good. Not sure how the water could have affected it. But my luck the axle nut is probably rusted on and the splines rusted inside the hub. Gotta think I could clean that rust off, if so. Just need to get it off and see.
     
  7. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    Two bands types is what I read as well. After reading all that, and from what it appears in the manual, that I have to take the entire shaft out anyway, I'm going to try to just swap the whole shaft.

    That's weird, then, that the hub doesn't just slide right on. I didn't see a keyway or anything that required the splines to be married correctly to the hub. Just assumed that since it was so hard to come off, it kinda had to be pressed back on using the axle nut to pull it down. However, I didn't read the manual until after all this - it seemed pretty straightforward - and now I see that it suggests coating the splines with engine oil. They looked slippery, with no rust, so I also wonder why it was so hard to come off. Beating with a ball peen did nothing, although the gear puller got it right off. And the manual says you only need a plastic hammer. Hmm.

    I wonder if any of this suggests that I got a bigger problem than the bearing? It seemed like classic symptoms. No noise while creeping; some roaring while driving straight, then lots of noise when veering/turning to the left.

    But, nothing is ever easy for me, lol. Murphy may have written the laws, but I'm the President who signed off on them. Lesser men, or lesser fools, would usually quit long before I do.
     
  8. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    Another confession: I'd never heard the term "stake" before. All the axle nuts I've dealt with had cotter pins. So, even though I read your instructions to "unstake," I didn't and just cranked the axle nut off. Didn't seem any harder than any bolt would at that torque. After I got it off and saw that stake mark, then read the manual, I figured it out. Maybe, cranking it off bunged up the threads too, although I didn't notice anything unusual (but didn't look closely, and obviously missed the bulge that gear puller caused). Still amazed that nut didn't just screw right on. It ain't easy being Bonehead.
     
  9. Brian in Tucson

    Brian in Tucson Active Member

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    When I did the struts on a Gen 2, the owner came out after I left and cut one of the boots. Rather than just getting new boots, he bought a rebuilt axle at Autozone. Don't worry about the clamps, you cut them off and use new clamps.

    I think if you check at Rock Auto (you can look up the parts) you'll find that the axles are not mix or match. I don't think rebuilts are very expensive, if you can't find a good one on your parts cars, it's an alternative. If you are pulling an axle off a flood car, I would replace the cv joint grease, boots, and clamps. Rock sells those pretty cheap, it's a messy job but you basically take the axles back to factory condition. And I'm betting it wouldn't be anything you can't handle. I did the ones on my Porsche boxster.
     
  10. gothstone

    gothstone Junior Member

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    The left and right half shafts are DEFINITELY not interchangeable. But it's only $48 or $52 from rockauto if you don't want to rob one of the other 7 dwarves.

    The factory service manual is great for super detailed or weird crap. For simple how do I replace this common part, go to autozone.com and use their vehicle repair guides. Attached is their halfshaft guide. You won't need the special tool to pop the old one out, just carefully use a prybar. To get the new one in just push hard and fast to pop in the circlip.
     

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  11. Brian in Tucson

    Brian in Tucson Active Member

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    New guy's like a twin son of a different mother.
     
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  12. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    Thanks, guys. I just found that AutoZone description last night. You're right about the manual, kinda confusing.
     
  13. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    "New guy's like a twin son of a different mother."

    LOL, he may not like you saying that about his mom.
     
  14. Brian in Tucson

    Brian in Tucson Active Member

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    Blue locktite instead of staking.
     
  15. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    Well, dang, my parts car has a different shaft - guess they vary between the 01-03 model years. This one has a cotter pin through the shaft and a cap over the nut. Looks to be a smaller diameter as well. I'm not going to bother taking off the other parts car just for this; that car is still all intact. Looks like I'm buying a new one.
     
  16. gothstone

    gothstone Junior Member

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    I just double and then triple checked. The same part numbers are called for on all 3 years. I think one of your cars is just wrong. Side Note - I miss cotter pins and castle nuts instead of stake nuts. Cotter pins I can get anywhere, stake nuts are pretty much always special order.
     
  17. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    Yeah, I've been looking at axle shafts online and there's a bunch of different ones. The one on my car has a damper in the middle, but most of the ones I'm seeing don't. When I first searched, the results kept showing left axles, and I found a seemingly official Toyota parts site, and it lists the right axle as not available although it sells the left??? Guess I'm headed to the stealership just to get an accurate part number. Also need to confirm the year model of this car - I don't try to remember which is which with all these cars.

    Definitely strange that one car having the cotter pin axle. It's also missing the outer boot, or never had one.
     
  18. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    Watched a vid and now see that these shafts do just pop out of the transaxle. Seems pretty straightforward - when you have the car up in the air on a lift. I'm thinking it's going to be a pain getting a pry bar in there with it only on jackstands. *)$%^&$%$
     
  19. DaveGoodrich

    DaveGoodrich Member

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  20. ronlewis

    ronlewis Active Member

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    Thanks, Dave. I started this as a wheel bearing project, so I did have to remove the brakes, etc. Just got my axle delivered and will be installing in later today. Hopefully, I won't screw it up again.