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High temperature magnets

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Superconducting wind turbine chalks up first test success

    . . .
    the team employed rare-earth barium copper oxide (ReBCO) high-temperature superconducting generators. These require a smaller amount of rare-earth materials than PM machines, resulting in a lower cost. Superconductors can also carry high current densities, which results in more power-dense coils and a lower weight.

    Ms Bergen said: "The field test of the generator was extremely successful. When the generator was installed at Thyborøn, the turbine achieved its targeted power range, including more than 650 hours of grid operation. This shows the compatibility of superconductive generator technology with all the elements of an operational environment such as variable speeds, grid faults, electromagnetic harmonics, and vibrations.
    . . .

    This is important because it reduces the need for 'rare earth', magnets in generator and motor power systems.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    Interesting. However, I would imagine that efficacy would still depend on the superconductor's operating temperature. To date, I believe the best achieved is 134°K thereabouts (-282°F) which would still require cryogenic equipment to operate (either that or a continuous supply of liquid nitrogen at every wind tower). Maybe they've come up with a solution though.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    For large vehicles (locomotive, ships, aircraft,) I don't see a problem with a cryogenic system. After all, there are fuel-cell vehicles and liquid hydrogen would be a perfect complement(*).

    Bob Wilson

    *- I have not done a proper thermodynamic analysis ... think of it as a 'honey pot' for the fuel cell advocates.
     
  4. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    They generate enough power to produce their own liquid nitrogen if they had to. The question is whether it is efficient to do so, compared to other designs. I find it odd that they don't even mention cryogenics as a requirement for a superconductor based system. That leads me to believe that either 1) it's not a significant problem - which I doubt - or 2) it is a problem significant enough that they don't want to discuss it.

    I'm not aware of any ships or locomotives that utilize superconductor technology in their main propulsion or electrical systems.
     
    #4 ice9, Nov 14, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I remember reading about a naval ship using an experimental superconductor motor:
    Superconducting electric machine - Wikipedia

    Superconductor magnets are fairly common in MRI machines. This suggests size can be dealt with but other than reading, I've not pursued it. I also remember some articles discussing superconductors as an energy storage device.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    Probably the Zumwalt class destroyer Lyndon B. Johnson (DDG-1002) which is a candidate for a new rail gun which would use superconductor technology. It's still under development.
     
  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    We're about to sea-test as of Fall-2019.
    They're gonna need it.
    Right now the TWO Mk-51's on the Zoomies are useless, since there are no rounds for those guns!
    (your tax dollars....)

    How would you like to put to sea in a destroyer that is uglier than a G4 Prius, costs 2 gigabucks to build, "might" have sea-keeping issues, and has ZERO working guns?

    Hope that stealth stuff works!

    Meanwhile, the ChiComms have already managed to arm a warship with a railgun.
    Type 072III landing ship - Wikipedia
    Maybe we ought to be stealing THEIR designs instead of the other way around......

    I came across some of the early development gear for the squid's rail gun some 25 years ago.
    Biggest damn capacitor I ever saw!
    I'm not sure that the Zoomie class DDGs have enough generating capacity for an effective rail gun - and quite frankly I'd be fine keeping it experimental until they nuke everything out - punn almost unintended. The Fords (CVNs) might be a better platform, although you don't want 12-billion dollar bird farms swapping slugs with other 'targets.'

    If I were king for a day, AFTER jailing some congress critters and defense contractors I would use a combination of eminent domain and some barracks down in GTMO to get a cost effective extended range 155mm round that wouold work BOTH for the squids AND the track toads.


    We can let the Marines play with them until they're safe for adult use. ;)
     
  8. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    I always thought it was ironic that they were reverting to a "tumblehome" hull design reminiscent of pre-WW-1 hulls, but I am confident they will get results. They DO seem to be pushing the state-of-the-art perhaps a bit too much. But then, that's how progress is made.

    The DDG-1000 class may turn out to be a short run, Like Seawolf (SSN-21), Bainbridge, Truxtun, Long Beach (early CGNs), and Enterprise (CVN-65). At the very least it will point the way for future hulls.
     
  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Yup.

    They’re going to stop the production run at 3, and then punch out some more Arleigh Burkes - the ‘was gonna be’ predecessor to the DDG-1000s.
    The Zoomie class was going to complement a replacement for the Tycos - something that the Navy may not bother with now now that we have 67 Burkes in commission and counting.....

    At 600’, something like 15,000 tons, and with an all missile and no gun armament, the Zumwalt class should be redesignated as a cruiser, fixed, and produced as a replacement for 40-year-old CGs.

    Oh yeah.


    FunFact: The Zumwalt’s first skipper?
    Captain James Kirk.

    Somebody has a sense of humor!
     
    #9 ETC(SS), Nov 16, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
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  10. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    We could do like the British and come out with a warship that works good, except in warm water....
     
  11. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    ...that's what you get for always having to pick the lowest bidder.
    Try thinking about that sometime when you're at test depth on a 40-year-old submarine.......or you lift off the flight deck in back of a helo that's old enough to draw Social Security.

    The Brits have at least come up with a fix for their Type 45's.
    We still have 2 classes of ships with their OWN propulsion problems......NOT counting the Fords or the Zumi's.

    Your tax dollars at work!

    BTW....I think I caught a piece in fake news about the ChiComms field testing their (our) rail gun at sea recently.