Some Rather Unusual Information About the Toyota Prius

Hope you don't mind the feedback... my documents always require quite a few revisions before they become crowd pleasing.


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You really, really need to point out that they are dramatically dirtier (smog-related emissions)

You also should point out that the manual transmission driven pretty much only on the highway can get MPG that good. Otherwise, they are worse.

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"Remarkable" is disingenuous. It would be better to quote an actual estimated price instead. Also, the estimated distance is 180,000 miles.

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Swap'em. They are reversed.


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Adjectives are misleading, at best. In this case, reliability statistics should be included too.

And realistically, the design isn't more complex. It's just different. For example, PSD is extraordinarily simple in comparison to an common automatic transmission. That is very difficult to notice though... the very type of unusual info you seek to document.


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That is usually illegal, since restaurants are obligated to have their used vegetable oil properly disposed. Signing a contract with a recycle company is the typical choice... giving them the rights to the oil. If a consumer takes some, that is stealing.

Also, the department of health in some states may come after consumers, questioning what they are doing with the glycerin by-product from the portion of vegetable oil that cannot be used by the diesel engine.


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Lastly, a big omission (since other types of emissions are specifically mentioned) is nothing about NOx reduction or even the PZEV rating. Prius places high priority on that benefit, so it should be pointed out.


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Additionally, you could add that all Prius come with a Multi-Display standard. You could also point out that there is no ignition-key, only a fob for the current model. For the previous model, there was a key. But starting only required a quick twist, holding the key in place was not necessary. The process was basically like clicking a mouse, just telling the computer to start. One more odd entry could be that the RPM for the engine can be zero all the way up to 42 MPH. Some people don't realize the electrical system can be that independent.

A final thought could be to mention that HID bulbs (used in the headlights on some models) don't actually have a filament. Instead, the light is produced from a small arch of electricity!

 

Sounds like a lot of disinformation than actual information, especially from a non-Prius owner, trolling for attention.

We're the actual experts here with vastly more information, experience, and knowledge that isn't based on hearsay and myth.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Sep 16 2006, 07:04 AM) [snapback]320441[/snapback]</div>

john1701a, very good comments in your post above!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(javawizard @ Sep 16 2006, 01:40 AM) [snapback]320434[/snapback]</div>

Hi Jeff,


First off, Diesel has 113% the energy content of gasoline. Saying "power" is technically incorrect. Secondly, the 170% energy advantage applies for Otto cycle engine, by muliplying the engine efficiency advantage times the fuel advantage. The Prius engine is an Atikinson cycle engine, which itself is somewhat more efficient than an Otto cycle engine, AND has dramatically better part-throttle performance over an Otto cycle engine. The capability to turn the engine off when a Diesel would be idling, also advantageous. Leaving out these details is either incompently, or agregiously misleading. So, here is an odd fact for you:


Diesel engines touted for there low consumption at idle and low speeds, actually use more fuel than a Prius when waiting at a traffic light, or inching up to a turn lane. In fact, many Diesel over-the-road trucks have auxiliary power units, some of which are Hybrid Electric, to improve the fuel consumption and engine wear during on-the-road down times.


Here is another odd fact for you:

The replacement of a first generation Prius Battery is similar in cost to the repair of a traditional automatic transmission. Making the first generation Prius no more risky to buy used than any other automatic transmission car with similar mileage. The second generation Prius has even smaller battery replacement costs. Due to the simpliciy of the battery replacement service (pull plug from old battery, put in new battery and plug it in) a backyard mechanic can easily replace a Prius traction battery. Whereas an automatic transmission repair requires the resources of a dedicated automotive shop, plus a trained transmision mechanic.

 

Detractors of the Prius are talking about battery replacement as though it were going to be as common as transmission failure in conventional cars (and often without mentioning that the Prius has no transmission).

From what I've read, battery failure will be an extremely uncommon occurance. Transmission failure in conventional cars is common as those cars age. And in manual transmission cars, the clutch eventually wears out.

It is rather amusing when a non-owner posts anti-Prius myths on a Prius web site where there are so many people capable of de-bunking those myths. Javawizard would probably have more luck posting his link on a GM-enthusiasts web site. They'd eat it up with a spoon and lick the plate afterwards.

 

The original (linked) article seems to contain a lot of FUD:

"The engine is just a touch smaller than the largest Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine"
- And an apple is about the same size as an orange. And they are both fruit! :lol:

"...owners are reporting between 42 and 55mpg..."
- Owners are actually reporting between 30mpg and 115mpg:
http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=2...p;hl=hypermiler

"The battery life is estimated at around 150,000 miles"
- The warranty on the battery is 180,000 miles! This does not mean the battery will roll over and play dead when your odomoter reads 180000. Does your ICE stop working when the odo clicks over to 60k miles?


"At that point, you'll need all new batteries, and that's likely to cost a remarkable amount of money"
- See above, it is actually very unlikely that you'll need a new battery. See our Prius myths thread:
http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=2...hl=battery+life

"So, you can go 654 miles on a tank of gas, which is 20 to 50% further than a typical car between gas stations."
- Using EPA estimates to calculate anything is misleading:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/...03/article.html
In fact, most people will never get 654 miles per tank, while some hypermilers will get more.

"Because of the complexity of the Prius, repair costs can be astronomical when out of warranty."
- First, define astronomical. Second, *any* new car these days is complex. When your automatic transmission fails, is it simple to fix or cheap to replace?

" So, taking your Prius to an independent garage is pretty much out of the question."
- The garage in my house is independent. What, I can't change my own oil?

"I'd seriously recommend to avoid buying a used Prius, or keeping your new Prius once the warranty expires."
- I'd seriously recommend that people avoid reading this troll of an article!

 

javawizard = Thinly desguised TROLL not worthy of comment. Probably getting "kicks" from the commentary.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Sep 16 2006, 02:26 AM) [snapback]320451[/snapback]</div>

The actual experts are the engineers who designed the Prius and the trained mechanics that repair them, and they don't participate in this forum. B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jamarimutt @ Sep 16 2006, 03:46 PM) [snapback]320588[/snapback]</div>

You'd be surprised. Many times the collective knowledge on this board is vastly superior to the "expertly trained" mechanic.

 

A couple more points:

- You don't click a button on the fob to start the car. You press a button on the dash.

- As for Willie Nelson's 10000sqmi biodiesel "farm," he probably neglects the big delay waiting for a new crop of whatever vegetable is being grown. This is also the problem with corn-based ethanol. People are impressed by Brazil's sugar-cane ethanol, but they forget that we can't grow much cane in the US.

- The headlights are nothing special on the Prius. Other cars have HID lamps.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rick Auricchio @ Sep 16 2006, 05:15 PM) [snapback]320617[/snapback]</div>

But the timing certainly was. They were still extremely rare for a $25,000 vehicle to offer way back in 2003.

Of course, that's true of the hybrid system too.

Looking back from the 15th birthday of Prius (in 2012), the fact that hybrids weren't accepted as the next natural step in automotive evolution will shock some people. How could such a well proven technology now have ever be doubted? It will seem like a no-brainer then.

And look at how silly vehicles are without a display on their dashboard. Do you have any idea how our children will later mock us for having driven anything without a computer interface? They'll think we grew up in the dark ages. Of course, I'll agree. The 20th was rather primitive in comparison to what awaits.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Sep 16 2006, 02:26 AM) [snapback]320451[/snapback]</div>

We? You mean everyone that is registered to PriusChat? Or the folks that replied to the message? Or you? Or folks that registered before a certain date? Or folks with a certain number of posts? Or the ones with avatars? Can you be more specific, and I'll begin to address my Prius questions only to those people in the future.

Nice "community" answer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Sep 16 2006, 06:29 PM) [snapback]320622[/snapback]</div>

Hahah so true...and when my brothers (who are older then me) borrow (read, "are allowed to borrow") my Prius...they actually turn the display off. I get back in and it's off and I just think, "Ahh, the elderly!"

 

10 years from now, people will laugh when we tell them we used to have to manually manuver the car to avoid hitting other cars or obstacles. VSC is the first step towards taking the control away from us, the slow, careless, human to the the always alert, fast computer.

the Prius not only is advanced because of its hybrid method of propulsion, but also in the functions that are subletly removed from human control. first its transmission control, then braking, then steering under emergency conditions. there will be more to follow

 

The latest models require no key. Simply click a button on the fob, and you're ready to go.
No <_< . Leave the “smart key†fob in your pocket or purse. No need touch the key fob for normal everyday operation of the Prius. Grab either front door handle and the Prius automatically unlocks. Push the “Power†button on the dash and the car starts. Push it again to turn the car off. In case the key fob battery dies, there is a small metal key inside the fob for unlocking the door. The key fob is then inserted into a slot in the dash to allow for starting of the car.

More odd Prius info:

A Prius 12-volt battery is about the size of a motorcycle battery. The 12-volt battery does not provide power to crank start the gas engine. That power is provided by the much larger and more powerful traction battery. Should the 12-volt battery die, you can jump start a Prius, but Toyota advises against using a Prius to jump start another car.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Sep 16 2006, 03:29 PM) [snapback]320622[/snapback]</div>

I don't know what the future will bring. (Although, Dave, I see nothing in hardware or software to suggest that cars will be able to steer themselves reliably.) But I personally think it's silly and outdated now that other cars do not shut off their engines at stoplights. It's not so much the gas they're burning. Some small cars don't burn much at idle. It's just the exasperating noise and vibration and pollution of an engine that's not actually doing anything.

The 2004-2007 Prius is going to look primitive in 2012. But everything that's not a Prius looks mighty primitive right now.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Sep 17 2006, 10:52 AM) [snapback]320809[/snapback]</div>

There are some cars that can drive themselves now, through special courses and under controlled conditions. I think the best of the cars even manage double digit speeds through the courses.

Make No Mistake, a computer is not going to replace a human driver anytime soon. It just isn't capable of processing abstract information as fast as a human brain. If you or I see a small child wearing a huge poncho, we know exactly what it is instantly. If a computer sees that, it has figure out if it's a small child wearing a poncho, a plastic bag that got away, a small animal that it could hit if it would avoid sending you off the road, a piece of cloth that's flapping along, etc.

Even the best and most advanced computers aren't close yet.

As for the display in cars, yeah, it's probably going to be common. And kids in the future will point to the 2001 Prius and say "that was the way to go and what the hell were they thinking with the 2004"?

 

daniel you are right. the best computers are a long way off although testing for auto piloted cars has been going on for a few years and several prototypes have actually worked very well. some bugs to be worked out, but the major hurdle to implementation besides cost is driver reluctance to let go of the wheel, hence my original assertion that it is coming but in stages and VSC is simply part of that stage.