1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

2 questions about PiP and regular

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Eric Vasaio, Nov 20, 2019.

Tags:
  1. Eric Vasaio

    Eric Vasaio New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2019
    11
    8
    0
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I'm very much satisfied with my PiP of 2013. So far, 40k miles and a full-charge still can keep EV mode for 12 miles. No complaint.

    But 1 question derived. We all know that batteries don't live forever. Since our PiP's battery (4.4kwh) have more deep charge-discharge cycles and being used more often than regular Prius' batteries (2.2kwh) , does it mean that our batteries last not as long ? I know some regular Prius(non PiP) has original battery still functioning well after 10 years.

    Another question is mostly curious. When I'm driving it, at first the battery was full and EV till battery down to 0.1 mile and ICE kicks in. Since then, no matter how, battery can only be recharged to a certain level by engine (usually less than 1 mile capacity) and will switch automatically back to EV and consume electricity. So, if this is how battery works under regular driving, how can a regular Prius (non PiP) battery be fully charged?
     
    #1 Eric Vasaio, Nov 20, 2019
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,834
    16,072
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    My limited understanding is that the chemical composition of the two batteries (PiP vs. regular) is different as they are meant to do different jobs. The PiP's battery is designed to be fully charged and discharged regularly while the regular Prius is meant to maintain a small range of SOC and be constantly charge/discharge as it is driven (as we owners know). Therefore, in a perfect world, they're both designed to last the same amount of time because their chemical composition is designed for their respective purposes.

    (Slight correction. The regular Prius' NiMH battery is around 1.2kWh. The Li-Ion battery on the 2016+ is 0.7kWh).

    I'm not sure I understand your second question. If you're in HV mode (Charge-Sustain), then the engine won't fully charge a PiP battery. It works the same in the new Prius Prime.

    On a regular Prius, the battery is never fully charged. 8 bars on the battery meter is about 80% true SOC. It likes to sit around 6 bars (~60%). The regular Prius only "fully" charges if you drive down a hill or constantly brake hard. Under normal driving, you might see 7 bars but you typically range between 4-6 bars. This is for the NiMH battery Prius (2004-2015...both Gen 2 and 3). The Gen 4's Li-Ion battery works differently.
     
    #2 Tideland Prius, Nov 20, 2019
    jerrymildred and bisco like this.
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,762
    48,974
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    so far, we have not seen any failed pip batteries after 8 years and a few hundred thousand miles. thats all we have to go by.
    when the pip battery runs out of wall charge and the engine starts, it behaves similarly to the regular prius, but not exactly.
    one difference is that you can no longer drive in ev mode like you can in the lift back by pushing the ev button with enough battery charge and warm engine.
     
    #3 bisco, Nov 20, 2019
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  4. QuantumFireball

    QuantumFireball Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    416
    267
    0
    Location:
    Ireland
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Like the standard Prius, the battery in the Plug-in is never fully charged or discharged. When new there is a usable capacity of about 3.3 kWh. "Fully charged" is about 85% SOC, and the cutoff for EV mode is about 23%.

    It requires a lot more energy to recharge than a regular Prius. A regular Prius only has about 800Wh of usable capacity, whereas it's 3.3 kWh with the Plug-in. A lot of regen descending down some mountain pass might get a full charge, but not in normal driving circumstances.
     
    #4 QuantumFireball, Nov 21, 2019
    Tideland Prius and jerrymildred like this.
  5. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,491
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Barring a catastrophic failure, I would expect the batteries in the PiP and Prime to far outlast those in the regular hatchback. For one thing, they are far larger, so as they degrade, they'll have a lot more range to lose before being unusable. And since Toyota won't let the car fully drain or fill the traction battery on any Prius, they all get the same TLC from the computers.
     
    #5 jerrymildred, Nov 21, 2019
  6. Eric Vasaio

    Eric Vasaio New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2019
    11
    8
    0
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Thank you ALL for your input. Now I love my PiP ever more. Wondering why Telsa kind of pure electric vehicles' batteries are only good for 8 years? not because we are super lucky, or are we? :sneaky:
     
    #6 Eric Vasaio, Nov 30, 2019
  7. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    6,972
    3,209
    1
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Not good for, warrantied for.
     
    #7 El Dobro, Nov 30, 2019
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,762
    48,974
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    not sure if there has been a failed tesla yet
     
    #8 bisco, Nov 30, 2019
  9. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,862
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    As mentioned above, a Hybrid or even a PHEV only uses some part of the battery before reverting to gasoline. With a BEV, the range is so short they fill the battery more and drain it more, so the battery is getting stressed more than a PHEV or Hybrid. This is one reason I warn Prius owners not to run out of gas, you don't want to stress that big battery. You are shortening the life of the car.

    You can emulate this in a Tesla, never use all the battery, never completely charge all the battery. You will have shorter range, but a longer lived car.
     
    #9 JimboPalmer, Nov 30, 2019
    Eric Vasaio likes this.
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)