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Car won’t start.

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Gen1Prius, Dec 25, 2019.

  1. Gen1Prius

    Gen1Prius Junior Member

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    Dumb me didn’t even think that the hybrid battery would discharge from sitting. I thought if I started the engine that the engine would charge the hybrid battery and upon thinking about that I realize that it needed to be driven and the problem my head was that both right side wheels and tires were damaged and I had to try to locate replacements and so the only thing I did was put a battery tender on the 12 V battery. I got out one day to cut the grass and I start the car up and let it run while I was out cutting the grass thinking that it would shut off like it normally does and when I come back around the car was still running and I cut probably about a half an acre to an acre and when I came back run the second time still running I couldn’t figure out why wouldn’t shut up. So I shut the car off and of course when I got in the car I noticed there was a bunch of lights lit up on the dash and I didn’t get out my scan tool see what they were and when I did shut the vehicle off and I want to go to restart it was like it was totally dead. Now I’m not able to get the car started at all and here it’s winter time. What can I do to try to recharge or get the car started to where I can drive it to try to recharge the hybrid battery? I have read elsewhere that most likely the hybrid battery is toast because they don’t like to sit around not being utilized. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. One other question, is I love this car and it’s been a good car and I’m not ready to give up on it and I’m wondering if I can convert it to a plug-in hybrid? Thanks, Mike
     
  2. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Normally it won't.
    It sounds to me VERY much like your HV battery has finally failed.

    Either you need to spend a couple of hours reading back threads about testing HV batteries and buy a multi-meter.......
    OR you need to have it towed to a Prius shop or hybrid battery shop.

    Given the age, it might not really be worth fixing.......for the "average" owner.
     
  3. Gen1Prius

    Gen1Prius Junior Member

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    I’m a retired mechanic and I have had a limited amount of training on hybrids. I have a DVM so that’s not a problem. After I retired, I worked at an automotive trade school and the administrator was certified in hybrids and he tested the HV battery and it was fine. I’d like to know how I can get the engine started so I could go out and drive the vehicle and see if I can get the hybrid battery to charge. Thanks for the information.
     
  4. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    There is no magic.
    You haven't supplied near enough actual information to get back a good answer.
    What about the 12 V battery ? Did you test it ??
     
  5. Gen1Prius

    Gen1Prius Junior Member

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    The 12V battery has been upgraded to a Optima. I have it on a battery tender. I had it on the Optima charger prior to that. It’s winter here in Michigan currently. I haven’t checked the fault codes with my scanner as of yet. The weird thing is the fuel gauge stopped working. It has a full tank now. You are correct in that the hybrid battery may be toast. I’m going to wait until spring. Too cold to do anything now.
     
  6. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    SIGH.

    All of that might be interesting BUT none of it means that the 12 V battery is actually GOOD.
    New batteries fail, even when on a tender. The Optima's seem to do that more often than most.
    And even a good battery can have a bad connection.

    Good luck next spring.
     
  7. Gen1Prius

    Gen1Prius Junior Member

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    Yes, the Optima battery is good. Apparently you must not be familiar with the Optima charger because the Optima charger checks the condition of the battery before it charges it. All I have are nothing but lights that come on the dash when I go to try to start the car and it’s probably because like you said the hybrid battery is discharged. I was asking a simple question. Can the hybrid battery be charged without the vehicle being driven, yes or no?
     
  8. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    The "test" that any charger does on the battery's health is pretty rudimentary and can't necessarily be trusted. It sometimes lies.

    Then, yes, but the charger to do the HV battery with is fairly expensive and messing with it can be rather dangerous.
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    It does, inexorably, if sitting long enough, as touched on briefly in the owner's manual on page 8:

    decline.png

    For that purpose, "a long time" is generally thought to be on the order of several weeks (I think some other years of the manual have been a little more specific than this 2002 edition, but looking up other examples feels like work right now). Hence recommendations on PriusChat to arrange for somebody to start the car and leave it READY for a few minutes now and then, if it is going to be stored a couple months or more.

    I re-read your post looking for how long the car had initially been sitting, but I've missed it.

    What you thought first was correct, and then you talked yourself out of it. :) The car will run the engine as needed and recharge the hybrid battery any time the READY light is on (and the transmission is not in N). It can be sitting there in P, up on blocks, while you read a newspaper, cut the grass, whatever, and it will charge the battery if the battery needs charging.

    Do you happen to remember what the battery charge bar graph on the MFD looked like at any of those times?

    My reading would be that the battery was quite discharged to begin with, but still able to start the engine, and after that the car was busy doing what it's built to do, running the engine to recharge the battery, taking longer because of the severe discharge. I would have left it running longer (yes, I know hindsight's 20/20) and watched to see if the bar graph was going up. If it ran for quite a long time without the bar going up, or there were other warning lights on at the time, I might have tried a scan tool to get battery condition and any diagnostic codes while it was still running.

    Again, you don't need to drive it to charge the hybrid battery, but you do need to get the engine to start, and it will charge as long as it's sitting there, if the battery is still viable and able to take a charge.

    As long as the 12 volt battery is good and you can turn the car ON (just the key to ON position, not start), you will be able to use a Prius-capable scan tool and learn the car's exact reason(s) for not starting the engine now, and also a lot of info on the condition of the battery. That would reveal whether the battery is damaged, and how severely, and whether the damage is throughout, or limited to a few modules.

    If it needs to be charged to a minimum level to start the engine (and if it can be), that's a bit of a process. Toyota has hybrid battery charging equipment, but not normally at the dealer; it has to be shipped there, sometimes along with the person who operates it.

    There are products called "grid chargers" used by some on PriusChat with the aim of extending the life of the hybrid battery, and those can also be pressed into service to charge a severely drained battery (again, if it is chargeable). They have to be installed, which shouldn't be attempted lightly with just some electrical knowledge and a DVM, but rather with the right personal protective gear and an informed respect for what, in a Gen 1, can exceed 300 volts DC.

    Again, the information from a scan tool on the trouble codes and the battery module condition would be what I'd want in front of me before choosing a way forward.

    Edit: Gen 1 cars have also been caught doing a sort of battery-balance cycle now and then, where instead of stopping charge at the usual target of 60%, they will push it right to 100% and hold for a while, then let it discharge back to 60%. My old Gen 1 used to do that a couple times a year at least, usually while I was driving and probably wouldn't have noticed without a ScanGauge to watch. If the car had been sitting a long time, the battery might have been in a condition to trigger that cycle, which would be another way to explain the unusually long run time.

    Also, are you sure the engine hadn't cycled off while you were half an acre in, and happened to cycle back on when you came to look at it?
     
    #9 ChapmanF, Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019