Was the Pope Correct?

I find it fascinating that when you tell them you find them to be a violent religion, their immediate reaction is "No we aren't and we're burning these buildings and killing these innocent people to prove it"

Secondly, I haven't heard anyone rebut the quote. "All that Mohammed brought to the faith was violence and mahem"... or something to that tune....

If that's false and the guy in 1400 said a wrong thing and now the Pope quoted a wrong thing then someone with expertise in Islam needs to get on with O'Riley and CNN and lay it out... In the book of Babah v423 it shows where Muhammad brought kindness and peaceful nurturing of sea turtles... or whatever it was that can refute the statement.

I haven't seen anything like that, only killing of a nun or two and some fires started... which only prove the point the pope made.. I don't know if there is anything to refute the statement... do we have any expertiese on the board here?

 

Yes, the Pope was absolutely, 100%, indisputably accurate in what he said.

He made it very clear he was quoting 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus, and the quote was delivered accurately.

He pointed out that "The emperor goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable," also correct and accurate.

Outside of the accurate-or-not arena, he opined that the comments were "brusque" and gave no indication of whether he agreed with them, and also stated his own belief that "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul."

 

I don't now if he was correct, but I agree with Glen that he was very clear that he was quoting and that the comments were brusque. The strangest thing is, this isn't the first time the Pope has commented about violence in the name of religion. According to CNN:

 

I think the pope was obsolutely correct but it's the wrong time to say.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 19 2006, 09:10 AM) [snapback]321657[/snapback]</div>

I have to disagree with this sentiment. There are theologians in both the Muslim and Christian world that discuss these issues and can debate them intelligently. The fact that there are sects within each religion doesn't negate the fact that there are also experts who understand the sects, the source of their division, and the theology underlying the actions taken by the adherents which are, often, in stark contrast to the core teachings of that very theology.

There is some truth to the idea that the Prophet used the sword to advance the faith, but Islam also spreads peacefully, as it has in Indonesia and China. As a non-Muslim, I mean no disrespect by what I am about to say: Islam (the faith) suffers when it is too closely allied with political power. That is a lesson Christians learned (imperfectly) during the Reformation, only to make it again and again until disestablishment of religion proved to be the most effective way of evangelizing an entire culture. Can Islam have a Reformation?

I have not read the Pope's speech, but I understand his main point was that reason and faith must work together to reach a workable consensus, a heritage Christianity inherited from Judaism (and from its own struggle to establish a canon of scripture). Imperfect as it has been, Christianity has a healthy, active mechanism for resolving theological disputes. Far too often the appeal to reason has been met with violence from the entrenched and established powers, but in the end, reason can be victorious.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 19 2006, 12:10 PM) [snapback]321657[/snapback]</div>

There are indeed, expperts on both sides. As well as plenty of people that think aren't.

While what the Pope said was true, I fear it was widely misquoted.

Sort of like when John Lennon was mis quoted in the 1960's, when he said, "Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. ... We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first-rock 'n' roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me."

Many in the Christian world, when they heard this, heard only 'The Beatles are Bigger then Jesus', and burned Beatles Records, and called for his head. Now, how Christ like is that? Not much.

Later, when I was just starting in radio, I met this man, John Lennon, and asked him what he meant by that. And what he meant, was basically it was a shame that a POP group, the Beatles, were more important then Christ. And that he found people who often say they are Christians, were often the ones that acted the least Christ like. And that religion ruined Christ for him.

And in 1975, one day while watching TV, he came across the 700 Club, and loved it. He would watch that show a lot during the next five years. I am not sure why. But I believe John Lennon had a healthy respect for Christ, and His peaceful ways.

I can't quite say the same for all of those that follow Mohammad, or Christ, today.

 

YES...the Pope was right. Those people must not have jobs or a life. They sure have a lot of time to protest and tear down a lot. This poor world is in for a long road ahead. We need to get oursleves off of our need for their oil. Those of us who drive a Prius are trying to do our part. :mellow:

 

Cardinal Ratzinger once referred to Buddhism as a form of "masturbation for the mind"

At least he was talking about something he knows about.

 

Of course he was right and the reaction to his thesis provided all the proof that was required. But I carry no water for him or his fellow religionistas be they of the christian, muslim or whatever stripe.

 

An update from today on this...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/22...slam/index.html

 

For anyone, including Muslims, who would like to read what he actually said in full context ......

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=46474

Just wish there was an accurate Arabic translation - not that many would bother to actually read the whole thing and find it was hardly what they had been led to believe.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Sep 19 2006, 12:03 PM) [snapback]321687[/snapback]</div>

(in the future, if links are lost, above is linked a picture of a man holding a signing reading "behead those who insult Islam". And I was being sarcastic) [/b][/quote]

Islam sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And those who follow it are infidels!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If more people were not afraid to confront them, they wouldn't be bullying the whole world now.

 

Is the Pope right? Is he RIGHT?????

What kind of heretical question is that? To even ask it is so insulting! Off with YOUR head, infidel!

THE POPE IS INFALLIBLE!!!

Nobody in any of your other two-bit religions can claim that!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Sep 23 2006, 11:39 AM) [snapback]323904[/snapback]</div>

I think the whole world knows that the Pope has to say what is politically correct and put the truth on the back burner.

I normally have zero respect for the Pope since I view him as a puppet with about as much real practical power as King Charles only living out an image for the sake of the people they serve.

But my hats off to this new Pope who I believe is trying his best not to squash truth to the point of flat out lying.

It seems he may actually have a concious and trying to do what is "right" rather than whats politically correct.

The two are and always have been vastly different.

The trick is to say the truth and still be politically correct..... thats the challenge.... and thats why they usually say nothing or statements that are very general, watered down, and pointless instead.

Hail the the Pope!... if he gets killed, at least he will have gone down in battle instead of wussing out like everyone else thats afraid of these cowards terroists who hide behind women and children as thier sheild.

They can't even stand and fight like a man, and neither could the recent Popes in the past....

Again..... hurray for the Pope.... good job!