1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Featured PHEVs taking a hit in recent study

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Marine Ray, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,822
    16,060
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Threads merged
     
  2. davecook89t

    davecook89t Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2016
    1,057
    789
    0
    Location:
    Washington State, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    Not true, at least for the new Corolla.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,661
    8,063
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I remember the Great Lake Erie and the Cayuga River that dumps into it, while in my first yr of high school. You know pollution is high when everything in water dies - & then the water catches fire.



    This is actually optimistic on multiple levels. It shows that life will return after we use our natural resources as a sewer, and it shows how much we're regaining our sensibilities
    .
     
    #23 hill, Feb 8, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
    jerrymildred likes this.
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,123
    15,388
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I prefer to start with 'requirements' and then pick the vehicle(s):
    • Mandatory
      • seats and internal volume
      • operating cost
      • purchase cost
      • cruise control
    • Optional
      • color
      • safety features
      • cabin creature comforts
      • performance
    The mandatory requirements eliminate a large number of vehicles. The optional requirements can be assigned a utility value, say part of 100%, to bounce against the cost and rank the remaining vehicles. So this is how it works for us:
    MANDATORY BMW i3-REx Std. Rng. Plus Model 3
    1 two retired adults; no kids and; three small dogs 4-5 seats two large bags and receiver hitch
    2 operating cost urban EV 90% and gas 10% cross country 100% EV with Superchargers
    3 purchase cost $30k or less $30k or less
    4 cruise control dynamic dynamic
    5 OPTIONAL
    6 10% - color: not-Green White + Black trim 10% Blue 10%
    7 50% - safety quick steering 10% self steering 50%
    8 30% cabin navigation 15% navigation coupled steering 30%
    9 20% - 0-60 sec. performance <8 sec 10% <6 sec 20%
    10 score 45% 100%
    11
    Column 1
    0
    12
    13 [*]'not-Green' - spent 4 years Marine Corps once had a hated green Chevette and rejected green 2001 Prius that had no cruise control
    14 [*]'safety' - auto steering keeps car in lane without bleeps or wandering off into bad places like neutral stable 2003 Prius
    15 [*]'cabin' - GPS navigation with updatable maps
    16 [*]'performance' - get away from the idiots: across the intersection first; grab opening in traffic and; reach speed limit first
    17 [/LIST]
    18 The BMW i3-REx an EV with a decoupled range extender engine fully meets our requirements. Due 50 kW maximum DC charging electric cross country miles are 4x the cost of running on gas. With ~3 000 lbs and 168 HP motor it has serious scoot. Wife's folding wheelchair can be carried on back. Taking a nap is in seat or bent leg.
    19
    20 The Std. Rng. Plus Model 3 ~3 500 lbs with 283 HP has serious scoot so operated in 'chill' mode for a calmer driving experience matching the BMW i3-REx. The peak 170 kW charging means half the BMW cost of gas per mile. Two can sleep in car stretched out or nap in seats. Supercharging network building a station between Little Rock and Tulsa/Joplin. Last trips had to use J1772 and take a 3-4 hour nap.
    21
    22 Bob Wilson
     
    Marine Ray likes this.
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,661
    8,063
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    So big deal if plugins take a hit when owners are too lazy or incapable of plugging in. Out of 10K+ miles so far - 95% of our miles were plugged in & 90% of those were off of our (paid for their self) solar panels (guess the article doesn't want to put that issue into the efficiency equation either) .
    In any event, with a standard Pacifica for example, we'd only get 20 MPG . If we never plugged in our Pacifica, we'd get 30mpg as a hybrid. By plugging in during ~90% of our miles - we get near the 84MPGe that it'd get if we never used gas. And that's a 5000 pound vehicle!

    20200208_123909-1.jpg

    So - if folks don't plug in to a car that is designed to do that, heck, I figure they're just paying Road tax for both of us.
    .
     
    Marine Ray likes this.
  6. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    1,549
    720
    0
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    Since MPG with a plugin is really an equation involving electricity and gasoline, the headline is really saying:

    Researchers find that operations on the left side of an equation must also be carried out on the right

    Shocking news, truly.
     
    Larry3 likes this.
  7. RomanCro

    RomanCro Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    63
    20
    0
    Location:
    Croatia
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius PHV
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Right. Its like saying EV wont move if you dont chatge it. Hello....thats what is designet for. If you missuse it, no wonder it does not work.


    SM-G973F ?
     
  8. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,577
    1,599
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    researchers find burning gas makes pollution

    very surprising
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,705
    11,304
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The actual news of the OP report, if it didn't pursue a slant, is that the fuel use, and thus carbon emissions, are worse in real world driving than the easy going test results used by Europe. The difference can be even bigger with PHEVs, depending on the amount on the charging the driver does.
     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,661
    8,063
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Makes one Wonder. Since this slanted article purpose is to make plugins look worse rather than better than regular hybrids? Maybe the article should have said, "if you add cheat software - you make your cars look clean, you'll get 40X the amount of pollution ... better power performance AND higher mpg than hybrids!"
    ... wait - the European clean diesel Community already tried that.

    .
     
  11. Prius Pete

    Prius Pete Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    183
    178
    2
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I don't believe you can accurately compare different vehicle technologies. You can compare specific vehicles but, within each technology there is so much variation that comparisons are useless.