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Featured Toyota's Master Plan for a Low Carbon Future

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Prius Pete, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Tesla Model 3 Was Actually The 4th Best-Selling xEV In Europe In 2019

    xEV growth to 8% of total new car sales in Europe. Very good indeed!
    Makes me wonder why the author (supposedly) interested in a better world - at Insideevs - can't say something good about hybrids...

    "Sales of xEVs by category suggest that in 2020 we might see plug-ins above hybrids"

    "HEVs: 56% (down from 59% in 2018)" (share of xEV)

    In fact, HEV grew from 558k to 753k YoY in Europe, and displaced a lot of conventional cars, which by far sell and pollute the most!
     
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  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Most hardcore EVers are anti-hybrids because it still relies on an engine as its main source of propulsion.

    My take is: if a buyer (who may keep the car for 10 years) buys a hybrid over a gasser, that’s 10 years of reduced emissions.

    If they end up with a gasser instead of an EV because of several reasons (budget, lifestyle, Vehicle preference), then we “lose” as a society because we could’ve had, say 30%, fuel reduction instead of 0% all because the EVers gambled with 100% or nothing.
     
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I'm not seeing the anti-hybrid bias. There wasn't any hybrid cheering, but there wasn't any booing either. The BEV boosting there was very mild, and let's be honest, a Tesla headline is going to draw more eyes than one about the Corolla hybrid. The author simply reported the numbers that JATO released, which may have been just the ratios.

    He also pointed out that PHEVs were down percentagewise. BEVs were the only group to see gains. Pointing out that if these trends continue, plug in sales might out number hybrid ones isn't a sign of favor. It's just a simple statement of an observation.

    Great that hybrid sales have grown so much, but the overall market had increased, so their share has dropped. However, their increase was greater than the increase for all car sales.
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Let the numbers tell the tale. But be wary of percentages as they can mislead. Going from 1 to 3 could be a 200% increase or even a 300% increase. They are written by English and Liberal arts majors, not illiterate engineers.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Precents are misleading. Lumping everything into a single category is misleading. Being vague is misleading....
     
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  6. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Definitely agree with this. Like many of us, it was a journey. We had to feel comfortable with a hybrid before we dd with a plug in hybrid. Then we had to feel comfortable with that before we went to an EV. Some people do, but I imagine it's very hard to go straight from full ICE to full EV. Big lifestyle change.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    It is a true 'mind set' change and few of today's ICE drivers, especially after 5 years, have the ability to learn and master how EVs work. It is a generational thang.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    That's simply not true for the overall market, the increase of the HEV was from 3.4% to 4.8%.
     
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  9. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Although I slightly doubted the approach in the beginning, Tesla's approach to make their vehicles have more performance than most ICE vehicles has paid off and why you see ICE owners switching directly to them. You rarely see a fully ICE owner switch over to a Leaf or something similar.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    our neighbors went from bmw and camry to two model 3's. they're very happy with them, and have taken some long trips.
    but they were prepared for the charging infrastructure compromise and have already reported a few 'mishaps' which just make life a bit more interesting, and are good stories to tell.
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The shares in the article were referring to xEV segment, so that is what I was referring to.

    JATO Dynamics is a for profit research firm. The source the article used was likely just a short piece they put out for advertising, or just a portion of a full report. It was obvious the author spent maybe a whole 5 minutes writing it; much of the written details came from this infograph posted with it.
    [​IMG]

    It was a quick, lazy piece that takes effort from the reader to be offended.

    The first two lines were the real news, "Thanks to a solid December, the year 2019 closed with a total of 15,757,412 new passenger car registrations in Europe (27 countries), which is 1.1% more than a year ago and the best result since 2007.

    According to JATO Dynamics, the xEV (HEVs, PHEVs, and BEVs) reached a record 8.1% share out of overall volume (1,277,908), as the electrification continues to progress."
    More cars sold in Europe than in the previous year, and did so during a time when the auto market started slacking off in other big markets. It was also a record year for the xEV segment. The percent hybrids alone was greater than seen in the US, and with EU sales being almost as many as the US, more total hybrids may have been sold there than the US. Like the article author, I'm not doing any math.

    This is good news.

    So you can focus on the car behind your Prius, or the road ahead. It is your choice.
     
  12. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    So the author is assuming all i3s sold were strictly BEV or were some REX models? Or did they just lump them together?


    Unsupervised!
     
  13. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Interesting twist. But no. The reader simply asks for some whole vision, not the narrow EV-sighted. 92% new tradicional cars should offend both writers and readers.

    Not good enough. We all demand more effort on reducing emissions.


    Perhaps having a Prius leaves me in a lesser position to defend a fair share of treatment regarding hybrids displacing traditional?
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    BMW stopped selling the REx in Europe. 2018 was the last year.
    UPDATE: BMW Cancels Range-Extender Option For i3 In Europe
    o_O Fine, I'll do math.

    2019 saw more new cars sold in Europe than in the past 12 years. xEVs also had a record market share of 8.1%. It was 6.4% in 2018. It is a big improvement. The US hasn't gotten back to where we used to be with hybrids.
    2018 (Full Year) Europe: Electric and Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales per EU and EFTA Country - Car Sales Statistics

    The only EV centric thing in that article was mentioning the Model 3 came in fourth in sales. You'd have a valid complaint if it wasn't mentioned that the 1 through 3 positions were hybrids, but the article did state that. Even that they were Japanese models. The top ten list was on that big infograph I posted from the article.

    Hybrids gained about 109K sales(note: depending on who you talk too, mild hybrids and even start/stop systems are counted, and I don't think the link I included here is directly comparable). BEVs gained about 156k. Pointing out that BEVs did better doesn't mean bias.

    1,276,350 traditional ICE cars were displaced in Europe last year. Dwelling on who displaced how many shifts focus away from displacing those traditional cars. Be happy that more are being displaced, and worry about displacing more, not whether one throw away article gave fair treatment of your specific displacers.
     
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  15. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    You seem more offended than me.
    And "my specific displacers" (your words) do better for a broad range of users who don't have a plug.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Not at all. I only got into this because of @Tideland Prius response. The statement had truth to it, but didn't apply in this specific case.
    Which shows in the total numbers, and it is great people without a place to charge have an option.
    The goal is to displace traditional ICE cars. How doesn't really matter. The main point of the article was on the improvement of that in Europe. If the goal was to be biased, it did a poor job of it.
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    toyota sides with trump administration regarding cafe standards, toyota thinks hybrids should get government tax breaks.

    it's all becoming crystal clear to me now.
     
    #137 bisco, Feb 21, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  18. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Well sure but the numbers are telling about trends.

    Looks like hybrids are now 4.5% of euro 27 (hadn't seen that grouping before) and plug-ins (phev and bev) at 3.6%. That hybrid number is higher than it has ever been in North America probably because of higher gas prices. Only japan has higher hybrid sales. Europe is probably the biggest growth market for hybrids and they are growing again world wide.

    phev shrank, hybrids grew but less than the full group (hev, phev, bev), bevs grew a great deal with tesla model 3, and its likely that tesla model y will grow bevs even more.
     
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The new Yaris should recover those sales. Other new and redesigned hybrids are arriving this year.
    The ID 3 will add to BEV numbers, though I expect it to be limited by battery supply.
     
  20. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Apparently Toyota Hybrids, based on number of resales, are the longest lasting (greater than 200,000 miles) hybrids and the HiHy is number 5 on the overall list behind 4 gas only SUVs.

    Study: Toyota has the longest-lasting hybrids
     
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