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Oil Catch Can from Ebay Installed

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by ydpplqbd, Dec 29, 2019.

  1. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    oil_catch_can_pic2.jpg Observations:
    a. Quick install of catch can completed in about 45 minutes where I also changed the spark plugs;

    b. Catch can install involved: i.) unbolting fuse block from fire wall, ii.) unbolting the airbox from the motor, iii.) removing coil packs for spark plugs, and iv.) removal and replacement of PCV valve, and iv.) original hose from PCV valve to throttle body was reused (to connect catch can and throttle body).

    c. When catch can was installed, the oil level was down about 1/2 quart after 2500 miles since last oil change. I then traveled about 500 miles by interstate and drove around in that northern locale for about 500 miles. At about 3500 miles (since last oil change), oil-catch-can-dipstick was checked (and oil was changed). At this point, the oil-catch-can-dipstick showed about 3/4" inch from bottom of dipstick.

    d. After the oil change (the dipstick showed oil at the second dot on dipstick - IOW full but NOT overly full), I then drove about 500 miles back home at about 75mph most of the way (on the way up on this trip I traveled at about 65 mph). When I returned home (500 miles of driving and 500 miles since last oil change), I found that the oil-catch-can-dipstick showed about 2 1/2" inch from bottom of dipstick.

    Observations:
    1. Clearly the oil-catch-can is working (because I am capturing oil from the PCV blowby).

    2. Significantly more "spoils" is being captured by the oil-catch-can-dipstick when driving predominantly at 75mph versus when driving predominantly at 65mph.

    3. Fact that the oil level was down 1/2 quart at the beginning of the journey may have helped to reduce the oil-catch-can "spoils." I will likely experiment with spoils accumulation rate versus mph average on future long strips say more than 200 miles.

    4. Back of envelope quantification of "spoils": 3" diameter of oil-catch-can gives us an area of approximately 6.75in2 (3"/2)^2 x pi). Further, it appears that we have a "spoils" volume of 16.875in3 (6.75in2 x 2.5in*). Using water as the benchmark for number of volume ounces when compared with cubic inches gives the following formula (I know water weighs more than oil but for a back of the envelope calculation it should be good enough):
    1ft3=12in x 12in x 12in= 1728in3 >>>>> 1ft3 of water= 64lbs >>>>
    1gallon of water = 8lbs >>>>>>1/8ft3 water (volume of 1 gallon water) = 1728/8in3 water (volume)= 216in3 water (volume)/128oz (volume) >>>> 1.6875in3 water = 1.00oz water.

    Thus, I should have captured about 10 oz. of spoils (16.875 spoils x 1.0oz/1.6875in3). The spoils are highly aerated just what you would expect from blow by. Thus the actual oil volume captured in the "spoils" is likely significantly less than the "spoils" volume. My best guess is that the spoils volume is inflated by about 100%. Meaning that 10oz. of "spoils" would be generated by about 5oz. of actual oil (I will have to weigh the "spoils" to get a better handle on the actual oil volume).


    *- depth of spoils in oil-catch-can.
     
    #1 ydpplqbd, Dec 29, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  2. scona

    scona Active Member

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    Congratulations, emptying the can does remove any doubt in your mind that you have done a good thing for the engine by installing it.
    The spoils, if you sniff them contain a lot of gasoline, water, and other noxious products. I leave my quantity purposefully 1/2 quart low and it seems to reduce the collections.
     
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  3. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    Thanks for the feedback and input. Your statement about the 1/2 quart low seems to be on target. I am especially happy that these "spoils" are not getting fed into my expensive catalyst.

    Finally, what color are your spoils?

    PS I have not sniffed the "spoils" yet. The point that you make about removing fuel and water also is an important point that I did NOT initially focus upon.
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    You'll likely need to replace the supplied hoses: 3/8" fuel line (spec SAE 30R6 or 30R7) is good, readily available, $1~2 per foot from automotive specialty stores. Those clear hoses being supplied aren't really up to it.

    I typically empty mine spring and fall. Spring is a coffee latte oleo, when settled looks to be about 50/50 water/oil based, with a hint of gas. Fall is mostly oil, and about half the volume in total. In other words: the oil's about the same year 'round, and the spring drain has extra water.

    I'm just on the cusp of replumbing mine, going from 3/8" to 1/2" hose, and procuring some extra fittings to make it happen. My concern being that going from a simple/short hose to significantly more hose, more couplings, and the labyrinth of the oil catch can, I'm reducing flow.

    Accordingly I'm:

    1. Increasing hose diameter
     
    #4 Mendel Leisk, Dec 29, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  5. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    Funny that you should say that about the clear hose. My reference to a quick install (above) was in large part to using the included clear hose (rather than obtaining automotive hose). Many thanks for providing the specifications for the replacement hose.

    PS If I have time I will make up a set of steel tubes to give a factory look for the oil-catch-can. I am thinking of using 3/8" (or perhaps 10mm) steel tubing welded to two brackets which attach under the airbox bolts. IOW, the two steel tubes would run from one end of the motor (near PCV valve) to the front of the motor. The last couple of inches would utilize the correct hose and attach to PCV valve, catch-can and throttle body. I will likely also replace the worm screw clamps with springy band clamps (similar or identical to Toyota hose clamps).
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah the regular screw clamps are not that good, often a necessary evil. If you're pushing a hose onto proper sized "hose barb", the clamps are apparently not needed, from what I've read. But with a spigot style, they're maybe good insurance.

    I think if you're using screw clamps, especially on plastic spigots (like intake manifold on 3rd gen), just go easy when tightening them, just snug them up. They can be introducing a "point load", and it would be a sand pounder to have to replace an intake manifold.

    The clamps that look like this:

    upload_2019-12-29_10-25-4.png
    Another, similar style:

    upload_2019-12-29_10-23-38.png

    are better, but hard to find. They're adjustable diameter range tends to be more limited too, I think.

    Plumbing the Oil Catch Can is can be an alluring rabbit hole for a tinkerer, lol.
     
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  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    What I mean by hose barb vs spigot:

    IMG_1740.JPG
     
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  8. scona

    scona Active Member

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    My spoils are similar to those that Mendel described and are seasonal. I tend to empty the can probably monthly, not because it really needs it but to provide the excuse to do a victory dance of sorts. It just feels good to do it.
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Keep meaning to say: there doesn't see to be a lot of 2nd gen'rs putting in an oil catch can. Maybe because the PCV valve's on the valve cover, at top of engine? But you seem to be catching worthwhile "spoils".

    Oh, and a word to the wise, when removing 2nd gen PCV valve: using an open-end box wrench to break it loose often leads to a cracked valve cover. Best is to remove the hose first, then loosen it with a deep socket on (good sized) ratchet wrench, or at least a closed-end wrench.

    The open-end box wrench has an increasing thickness which can lever a hole in the valve cover.

    Some 2nd gen PCV info in the attached.
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Google "t-bolt hose clamp" gives good results, for the style of hose clamp that doesn't impart point loads, and is gentler on the rubber.

    Sadly, the available sizes seem to all be larger. :(
     
    #10 Mendel Leisk, Dec 29, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  11. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    I emptied the spoils a couple days ago. And, I only had 5 ounces (rather than the ten ounces that I predicted above - oh well I will have to see where I went wrong). I poured the spoils into my garage measuring cup and let the spoils stay exposed to the atmosphere for more than two days. Over two days of atmospheric exposure, volume of spoils reduced to about 3.75 ounces. Which makes me believe that about 25% of spoils were composed of liquids that evaporate readily such as fuel (and to a lesser extent water). I have included some pics below so that all can see what I avoided passing back through the motor, exhaust and catalyst.

    01022020_oil_catch_can_pic10.jpg 01022020_oil_catch_can_pic11.jpg 01022020_oil_catch_can_pic12.jpg 01022020_oil_catch_can_pic13.jpg 01022020_oil_catch_can_pic14.jpg

    01022020_oil_catch_can_pic10.jpg 01022020_oil_catch_can_pic13.jpg 01022020_oil_catch_can_pic14.jpg 01022020_oil_catch_can_pic10.jpg 01022020_oil_catch_can_pic11.jpg 01022020_oil_catch_can_pic14.jpg
     
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  12. Kaptainkid1

    Kaptainkid1 Active Member

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    Just did a 3000 mile trip at highway speeds above 70+ mph the whole time. The car drove great but to make deadline I had to speed most of the trip and I feel the oil catch can worked over time. Plus the huge negative was poor mph. I average about 34mph the whole trip. So I empty the can before the trip and came back with with about 3oz of oil. Also I noticed I had to put in 1 quart of oil lost during the trip too. That's 1 quart for every 3000 miles. That's my base line for total highway drive. My city driving with mix highway I was averaging 1/3 qt. every 1500 miles. So this Prius is a oil burner for sure. 176k. 20200109_112418.jpg 20200109_112411.jpg

    SM-J737T1 ?
     
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  13. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    Kaptainkid1, be happy that the gunk pictured in the catch can (in your posting above) was NOT sent back through your engine. Similarly, I have seen a lot more spoils in the catch can when I drive fast 75mph as compared with 65mph.
     
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  14. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    I failed to timely empty my oil catch can. As a result, the dreaded CEL came on with P0420 code (Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold - catalyst is not working efficently/properly). My catch can is very small say 6 ounces maximum. However, once the catch can gets to say 5 ounces (about 85% capacity), the catch can loses its effectiveness (and spoils begin to be introduced into the engine) which ultimately, in my case, causes the P0420 code being triggered. It appears that those spoils are being successfully burned off after the catch can is emptied.

    I cleaned out the catch can, reset the code and my Gen2 is again running like a champion.
     
    #14 ydpplqbd, Feb 24, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Now you've got an idea anyway, how long is too long. Winter is the worst too I think, much more water based "spoils". Which reminds me:

    Just editorial, but "spoils" means something along the line of:

    "goods, advantages, or profits obtained by winning a war or being in a particular position or..."

    This sort of stuff:

    upload_2020-2-24_7-58-16.png
     
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  16. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    Yes, spoils can mean booty from war or hostilities.

    Before Gen2 Prius, I liklely would have used the word "spoil" to mean waste material removed during construction (or mining). See: Spoil tip - Wikipedia

    ================================================================

    Also see: spoils defintion - Yahoo Search Results

    Clearly, I am referring to definition #2 for the noun "spoil". While, ML is using noun definition #1.

    spoil /spoil/ verb

    noun

    • 1.goods stolen or taken forcibly from a person or place:"the looters carried their spoils away"
    • 2.waste material brought up during the course of an excavation or a dredging or mining operation.
    Powered by Oxford Dictionaries
    ==================================================================

    English is a wonderful language. A language where words that are often pronounced similarly mean exactly the opposite such as:

    1.) "raze" and "raise"; and

    2.) "except" and "accept".

    Yes, I know in many places the second example has distinct pronunciations for the two words. However, in the NYC area, many pronounce "except" and "accept" in an identical manner.

    In this instance, the same noun "spoil" can mean garbage or treasure. I am happy I am a native speaker (these types of words are very confusing to those trying to learn English).

    Kind of like mud-grass-horse in Mandarin which is pronounced roughly as ni-cao-ma (which means a very bad word when strung together without working on word intonation).
     
    #16 ydpplqbd, Feb 24, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Arrr, I was not aware of definition number 2.
     
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  18. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    06272020 update: it is now summer and I am now capturing about a TBSP of spoils every 4000 miles (oil change interval).

    In addition, oil consumption has been reduced to almost nil between oil changes. I attribute oil consumption fix to: i.) oil catch can, ii.) 4000 oil change interval with 40W detergent oil (thereby decarbonizing oil control rings), and iii.) limiting oil change quantity of oil to 3.5 quarts (rather than Toyota recommended 3.9 quarts of oil) thereby eliminating windage issues.
     
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  19. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    Most recently, changed oil and filter last week after 4500 miles. Total oil consumption over 4500 miles (approximately) was 1/2 quart. IOW, at this rate I no longer need to add oil between oil changes. I am now using Shell Rotella 15W-40 T4 (Shell designation for their synthetic oil) rather than Shell Rotella straight 40W.
     
  20. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Interesting post. The Prius I bought also has the DTC P0420 triggering the CEL. The previous owner also reported the car would burn oil, but mainly at speeds of around 75mph or so. I personally haven't driven it enough to see it burning oil. I do hope fixing one problem fixes the other, but we'll see.

    I plan on doing a compression test and a leak down test and checking the PCV valve. Hopefully it's not the rings.
     
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