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MPG dropped

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Andoo, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. Andoo

    Andoo Junior Member

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    Hello,
    I've read some threads here about MPG loss on some members, and unfortunately I'm facing a similar issue right now. I will try to be short:

    Logs:
    1) 2011 prius 4, 88K miles, bought 5 months ago from the 1st owner
    2) when I took the car it was showing 53 MPG
    3) drove the car 1K and it dropped to 47 MPG, first time on hybrid, my bad
    4) then it dropped to 43 MPG. checked 12V battery via screen (info + 4 times low beam) and it was showing 11.4V. Even after multiple long drives (90 miles a direction) it did not move. Decided the battery needs to be replaced, bought ACDeloco from amazon and replaced it. It still shows 11.6V (slight increase). It has been 3 months since the replace happened, never reached higher voltage.
    5) 2 weeks ago the car did not start. has to jump start it. Consumption dropped to a constant 32 MPG. it starts so far, but the night before this I saw a yellow triangle twice for not more than 1 second.
    6) I took a trip today for 40+ miles, and recorded the way back, and another 2 mile trip in town.

    40 mile trip shows 56.5 MPG (too good to be true)
    2 mile trip in town shows 32 MPG

    I have attached both reports and screens from my dash. Report was collected by hybrid assistant.

    I would appreciate any thoughts for my issue.
    Thank you!
     

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  2. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Replace 12v, no need to further troubleshoot.
     
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  3. Andoo

    Andoo Junior Member

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    just went to O'Reillys and they tested the battery (out of the car) and then the alternator reading with ICE on. All looks good to them. After they're quick charge done on the battery stress test, the info system on my dash was showing 11.9V, but dropping down.
    Might it be the car cannot charge the battery for some reason?
     
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Over what trip distance? The MPG display is tied to either Trip A or Trip B. If the distance is short, it means little. And it is specific to the previous driver's trip conditions and style, which don't match yours.
    (*) Your driving conditions are different, so a drop is not meaningful in itself;
    (*) Because your conditions are different, you should reset the MPG displays, erase the previous history, and get a direct reading of your own MPG, not a mixed number contaminated by the previous owner's results;
    (*) You are new to hybrids, there is a learning curve, so it is not 'your bad', at least yet.

    Do you have a separate digital multimeter to verify the voltage? I have not been confident in the absolute accuracy of the readings on my OBDII-port monitor, and have been suspicious of some other readers' internal readings.
    This vividly illustrates the MPG penalty of short trips. It takes a bunch of fuel to warm up the engine. On short trips, that warm-up fuel is amortized over just a short distance, causing low trip MPG. The same warm-up fuel amortized over a long trip produces a much better trip MPG.

    For a better illustration, reset a Trip meter at startup for a number of days. Then watch how that trip's MPG starts out pathetically low, then increases as the trip gets longer and longer. Non-hybrids do the very same thing, except that on long trips, their MPG is capped to a much lower figure.

    For more exploration, you can reset the meter again after the engine is fully warmed, and then get a direct readout of that MPG without having to drive as long a distance to average out the warm-up fuel penalty.

    If your typical commutes or trips are short, e.g. under ten miles, then you are stuck with disappointing MPGs. But remember that non-hybrids are even more disappointing on the same trips
     
    #4 fuzzy1, Feb 22, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  5. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    You said they tested the battery? What was the voltage reading of the battery, "out of car"?
    With the car in "ready" mode, running, only 11.9??? It should be 14 volts, or more. If you are not
    getting that, then you have a problem with the hybrid system not putting out enough voltage to the battery.
    Or the "new" battery has a problem and pulling a lot of power.

    As Grit said, have amazon send you a replacement battery.

     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    battery's fine, clean the egr
     
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  7. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    If the 12volt battery is reading less than 12 volts, it is not fine.
    If he's only getting 11.9 volts at the battery while the hybrid battery is active, with the car in ready mode,
    the battery MAY be good, but there is a problem with the hybrid system that supplies the 14 volts to
    charge the battery and run the other 12 systems, like the computers......
     
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  8. Andoo

    Andoo Junior Member

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    I have replaced the battery with OEM one I've got from Toyota.
    ACDelco I've got from Amazon was $170 and I was able to get a refund.
    Toyota gave me 20% off and I got the OEM battery for $174 (was very glad about this).
    I have charged it up home completely (took 4 hours) just to make sure its full and replaced it. The multimeleter was showing ~13.4V
    Result:
    1) with the car ICE off, the dashboard (2x start button, then info button pressed while switching the light on 4x times) still showed 11.6V
    2) when I put it in READY mode it goes to 13.9V
    3) after 20 miles on highway/city the MPG was 45 (used to be 32) and the car seems more alive
    4) after the car was shut off, I opened the dash again and there were 12.4V, but was dropping to 11.6V every second by 0.1V (12.4 -> 12.3 -> 12.2 ..). nothing was on except for the dash. not even low beam

    I am glad the MPG is getting back to my definition of 'normal', but still do not know if that voltage is actually pointing to a problem I have to take care of.

    PFA pics I took today
     

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    #8 Andoo, Feb 25, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2020
  9. Andoo

    Andoo Junior Member

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    I have the 90K milestone soon, I do plan to clean up the EGR and throttle while there.
     
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  10. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    I'm glad replacing the battery helped!
    When your driving, or the car is "ready", you are getting 13.9volts, correct?
    I'm wondering if you have a draw somewhere, that's why the battery voltage drops.
    Maybe inverter coolant pump? Engine water pump? I would get that checked out, to be safe.
    You should also carry a jumper, incase it drains the battery down, at least you'll be able to jump it
    to get you going.

     
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  11. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    Don't forget that your MPG will drop when it gets cold. If you are not hypermiling, your last readings (45 MPG) look normal for winter driving... ...depending on location, of course.
     
  12. Andoo

    Andoo Junior Member

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    Yes, when driving it gets up to 13.9V.
    Visualy there are no leaks and the levels are stable. Did you mean that?
    I did buy a potable jump start that I had to use just before I replaced the battery a few days ago.

    Thank you for you reply!
     
  13. Andoo

    Andoo Junior Member

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    I'm in Bellevue, WA. I couldn't realy say its cold out here. Winters go above 32 ussually.
     
  14. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    But you say you are getting 13.9v, so that is good.
    What I meant was... MAYBE the engine coolant pump or inverter coolant pump are running
    after the motor is turned off.
    Or some other device is still drawing power from the battery.
    It just seems odd that a NEW battery would drop below 12 volts after having 13.9 volts going to it
    for a period of time. Maybe a dome light on, in the trunk???
     
  15. Coots

    Coots Junior Member

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    I had this happen to a normal car of mine. I thought it was the battery and replaced it. It was fine for a while, then died on me again when it sat for a few days, undriven (this is not normal).
    Long story short: The alternator was dying and only intermittently working. This had been going on for months. Easy to test, replaced and problem solved. I know the Prius is different in this regard.

    Perhaps a bad relay is causing parasitic drain when sitting while off?
     
  16. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    Decrease in MPG becomes noticeable at temperatures below 50 degrees F - but again, that depends on how you drive and how far you drive. It's more noticeable when you hypermile and MUCH more noticeable if you drive/commute short distances (less than 5 miles to destination).

    I live in Norfolk Va, which, on the east coast, is about as close as you can get, weather-wise, to Seattle. Although it doesn't rain as much here, during the winter, when there is precipitation, it usually gets a few degrees above freezing and rains.

    Generally I see a decrease between 5 and 10 mpg during the winter. But then again, I usually commute only between 2 to 5 miles, on any given day, just to go to the gym and do errands, and only rarely do I use the interstate. When you do this, the ICE is operating at low efficiency for a large percentage of the trip. Also, I hypermile obsessively, which makes the lower efficiency much more noticeable (for short trips only).

    During trips to Seattle (before I retired) I rarely went anywhere without getting on the interstate. Lower mpg is much less noticeable for trips greater than 5 miles since the vehicle is operating at higher efficiency during most of the trip.
     
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  17. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    So "hypermile" is when you use up more gas than normal?
     
  18. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    No. Hypermiling causes the "apparent" drop in mpg to become more noticeable because you are using LESS gas during periods when the ICE has already warmed up (hypermiling does not improve mpg as much when the ICE is still warming up). E.g. If I get only 50 mpg for a 2 mile trip without hypermiling during the winter, I will typically get about 55 mpg during the summer because the car warms up quicker (a difference of 5 mpg). WITH hypermiling. I typically get around 60 to 65 mpg (sometimes 70 mpg) for the same trip during the summer, but I still only get 50 to 55 mpg during the winter (a difference of roughly 10 mpg). Hence, hypermiling increases the "apparent" loss of fuel efficiency from summer to winter by about 5 mpg.
     
    #18 ice9, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  19. Andoo

    Andoo Junior Member

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    how do you properly test the alternator for that? Yesterday when I started the car form overnight I heard a strange metalic sound under the hood. But most probably that would be the starter rather then alternator.

    I still get 42 MPG, otherwise the car is doing good. Just had my 90K service done.
    There is one light that is on while driving with my low beam on. I tried finding documentation on it, but couldn't.
    Do you know what this does?
     

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