For most, the proposed $1,000 check from the government won't even pay one month's rent...

I think that the business that had to cut back or shutdown, should continue to pay the employees. The federal money should reimburse the employers. Doesn't help with lost tips though.

 

Which is an issue of our tipping culture and minimum wage laws.

 

They knifed their economy to save the people who could rebuild it. They will be reinforcing the message to their people that they now have the responsibility to rebuild their economy.

Any dependency our economy has on theirs is our problem.

 

How do you hold a funeral for someone who died from the virus? Will undertakers accept the bodies?

 

I don't see why they wouldn't. They are trained in how to deal with contagions. People have been dying from contagious diseases for millenia.

 

You may want to think again about the unintended consequences that might have.

This has been discussed in FHoPolitics, but here's a version that's been depoliticised as far as it can be.

China made serious mistakes in November and December. Silencing doctors who were publicising the outbreak was stupid, and it did accelerate the spread. Much of the problem here was because of silly and oppressive moves by the government of Wuhan, which wanted to cover up the problem. While it's easy to blame Wuhan - and the Central government in Beijing very much does - Wuhan's actions were a result of the climate of oppression that's been created by President Xi since he began his second term. Wuhan officials were scared of admitting to Beijing that there was an outbreak, so they covered it up. This wouldn't have happened in his first term. So Wuhan and Beijing need to share the blame for that.

It is, however, important to note that this policy accelerated the spread in its initial phase; it did not cause a spread that would not otherwise have happened.

However, once the extent of the outbreak became clear, China reacted swiftly and decisively. As my learned friend @Leadfoot J. McCoalroller says, "They knifed their economy to save the people who could rebuild it."

An excellent point, but there's even more to it. China also knifed its economy to slow the spread and to give the rest of the world the time it needed to prepare - time that some countries chose to use wisely, and that many countries chose not to use at all. It knifed its own economy in order to limit damage to the rest of the world. Partly this was altruism and social responsibilty, but more of it was about soft power and about long-term economics. Exports remain a significant part (around 20%) of China's economy, and so they need stable economies to export to.

China reported no new infections yesterday. That's really quite significant.

Blaming China helps no-one. (Except racist demagogues, obviously, who are benefiting enormously.)

Blaming other countries wouldn't help either. My next-door neighbour is a doctor, and is on a State committee that deals with pandemics. She said that the broadly held view among pandemic specialists globally is now that the risk no longer comes from China, and that the biggest global threat is the US. I've heard similar comments from medical organisations in other countries. Iran also poses a significant threat.

Iran has faced a rapid spread because the government does not have the resources to address the problem. It was deprived of those resources by US policy. I'm not going to say whether that was right or wrong, because this isn't the politics forum. Some people may think this is a good outcome.

The US problem is down to systemic issues. Most other countries which are having to deal with high infection rates have a healthcare system. There's a centralised system that collects data in most of these countries, so it's possible to easily track the pandemic. The data can also be gathered easily, because people can get triaged and get tested: they are willing to do this because it's free. There's a system of sick pay, where you still get some or all of your salary when you're sick, so you don't have to fear enforced quarantine. And you don't get charged for your hospital stay or for your treatment. Because of this, people in those countries do not have an incentive to hide their infection and to continue spreading it. None of this is the case in the US. People either can't get tested because your healthcare system (for want of a better term) doesn't have tests in place, or they won't get tested because they can't afford to visit a hospital or a doctor and they certainly can't afford treatment and quarantine. This means that the disease has far more potential for uncontrolled spread in the US than it does in any other developed country. It also means we're unlikely to ever know how widely it spreads in the US. That leaves the strong possibility over the next few months of the US re-infecting countries that otherwise have the disease under control.

Again, I'm not going to say whether this is right or wrong, because this isn't the politics forum. You're a sovereign nation and you're free to make your own choices.

Also, of course, most countries had government pandemic response teams in place, ready to act immediately, but one country didn't because it had been disbanded. I'm not going to say whether this is right or wrong, because this isn't the politics forum. Maybe you didn't need a pandemic response team.

Is the rest of the world going to sue you for this? No. That would be stupid.

Other countries have made a pig's ear of their reactions too. The UK is a particularly notable example: it had the most centralised healthcare system in the world, and the best healthcare data collection in the world. It has free healthcare and sick pay. It's an island. It had all the resources it could possibly need for a brilliant response. And somehow they managed to mess it up through some bizarre "herd immunity" policy that every specialist said was ridiculous. The UK is also likely to pose an ongoing threat to the rest of the world.

Is the rest of the world going to sue the UK for this? No. That would be stupid.

What I'm saying here is, don't turn around, blame "The Chinese" for "The Chinese Virus", and demand compensation. Because we've all messed this up, and we're all culpable in different ways. Some countries are more culpable than others, and some have acted more responsibly than others to contain the situation. If we start suing each other like we're all American consumers, nobody wins. It makes far more sense to get on with the job of dealing with this problem and its consequences than it does to throw around blame.

 

I really wish I had thought to screenshot it, but for a few minutes recently CNN's USA domestic website was running a story + photo, a picture taken of Trump's speech copy lying on the lectern during his address today. A passage that came out of the printer as "CORONA VIRUS" had been covered in white stuff and rewritten in black Sharpie™: CORONA CHINESE.

The story's been spiked, can't get it out of my browser cache either. The President isn't just doing these cheap shots on the fly, he's actually spending time baking them in during the speech edits.

EDIT: Somebody's getting news sites to de-link the photo but I managed to scrape this:

 

hey folks, this thread isn't in fhopol, yet. but maybe it should have been from the get go.

 

We need to keep this out of the political thread: I think there's useful information here that shouldn't get self-quarantined and socially-distanced in a forum where only a dozen people will see it. Actually, if you could delete this post. But I shall respond to you on the coronavirus thread in FHoPolitics.

Everyone, what @Leadfoot J. McCoalroller meant to say here is that you may or may not like toads and that is up to you. Some people lick toads to get high. Others kiss them thinking they are frogs and they will turn into princes. In Queensland, people hit them with baseball bats and get a bounty from the government. Everyone has their own opinion on toads, and that is OK. He intended to be entirely apolitical here, because it's not the political thread.

Hope this helps.

 

weird, almost look like CHINASE

 

Curly 'e' I think. Just a fluke of handwriting.

This and one or two other forums I'm on have been absolutely stellar on this topic. Got stuff early, got useful discussions, great info, nice planning tips, entertaining and factual conversations... I figure if that can happen in the background of a fix-my-car forum, the Federal government ought to be able to do something really impressive.

Still waiting.

 

E

You will notice that this discussion is being held in the adult section of the forum.

Go into the political sub-forum and you will immediately figure out why, regardless of which child has which toy at the moment, nothing ever seems to get done and very little in the way of USEFUL data is promulgated.

....and even NOW things are not going to change for a while.


....a very LONG while.

 

You could get 2-3 shares of TSLA.

Bob Wilson

 

I'm not sure it's really being disappeared or anything ... I saw it in this CNN link a few hours after your post. Jabin Botsford was the photographer. Snopes has covered it. So has Mediaite. It doesn't seem to be going down a memory hole.

 

Sorry - one more thing on these unintended consequences, @Kenny94945 .

Should Mexico sue the US over its gun policy?

That's been the direct cause of huge numbers of deaths in Mexico, and it is far more directly attributable to US government policy than the coronavirus is to Chinese government policy.

How much should Mexico sue for? Just a ballpark figure would be good.

 

Honestly since I've had to do more of my work online I might just spend the $1,000 on milkshakes and a chocolate cake for myself

*sry I'm bored atm*

 

IF we get to see any checks, i wont be surprised if it looks similar to this...

 

Just tossing out a few thoughts-

This global event will take a certain toll on the United States in lives and dollars. I've read some bleak estimates with a worst case estimate that is possible that it will cost 3.6x as many American lives as WWII, and the best case is still a multiple.

In terms of economic impact, I'm not sure how to consider that. WWII obviously cost the USA an incredible sum but I haven't found a number or frankly even a proper method to compare estimates.

I don't think they mailed out checks after Pearl Harbor.