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For most, the proposed $1,000 check from the government won't even pay one month's rent...

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Georgina Rudkus, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    They did the reverse: asked and pleaded with citizens to buy War Bonds to help finance the war.
     
  2. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    That was in a long-ago time where being "poor" didn't mean you were using an iPhone 10 instead of an 11.

    I remember a quote that I heard a long time ago about the Great Depression that said.....IN 1932!!...that Americans are the only people who drive automobiles to demonstrate against poverty.....

    I'm thinking that it was from the novel "The Glory And The Dream" but....so many books....
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    soup lines
     
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    They had those here before the virus.

    In my beloved adopted home town there are several churches that open their fellowship halls on varying days including one next to one of my offices that have a Spaghetti Saturday.
    My own church has a very active food bank, because as it turns out addicts with kids find ways to trade food assistance bucks for drugs, but direct food handouts are more often eaten.

    The difference between NOW and the Great Depression lies in the difference between social safety nets available now versus 1932......and the fact that unemployment in the GD was 25%.
     
  5. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Those individuals can always eat their luxury cars. I've heard that the leather seats are a good source of protein.
     
    #45 Georgina Rudkus, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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  6. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Mieces tend to like the soy based wire insulation.
     
  7. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    And the fact that 25.% unemployment was measured absolutely as workforce participation not the mythical measurement we use today
    (also peak GD unemployment was around 33% as they measured it)

    Things don’t change much D1135FC0-CA03-4570-9893-0ACD87A3E07F.jpeg
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    We are the first nation in the history of the world to go to the poor house in an automobile. - Will Rogers

    Source: Will Rogers - Wikiquote

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    To go back to the original topic....

    I do wonder whether all of this is worth it. Yes, if we don't "flatten the curve", more people will die than will die otherwise. That is true.

    But we need to look at the numbers here. I don't pretend to know how this works: I'm just wondering.

    The moves taken in the UK, Mainland Europe, Australia the US and elsewhere will lead to catastrophic economic impacts. China is claiming that its actions - over a far shorter period than those we're going to see for those other countries - is going to lead to a 1% hit to GDP. I do understand the numbers here - China's economy is very much my thing - and I don't believe that 1% figure. It's going to be much more than that. The impact in more-developed countries in which the service industry plays a larger part would probably be bigger, even if it weren't for the fact that we're looking at measures spread over months rather than the weeks they took in China.

    We're going to see massive job losses and company closures. Yes, some governments are introducing stimulus measures and offering to partially cover lost wages, but this isn't going to be enough.

    People will lose their jobs. Businesses will go bankrupt. Baristas and shopkeepers and bar staff and restaurant staff and gym staff and flight attendants and pilots and baggage handlers and cinema workers and many more will lose their jobs, and their places of work will close. The same will happen in transport and tourism and We'll see loads of bankruptcies, and vast amounts of financial stress. Some of this will lead to mental health problems, physical health problems, and suicides. An increase in poverty is going to lead to an increase in violent crime: that's going to kill people too. The combination of financial stress and isolation will lead to an increase in domestic violence, and that will kill people. A lack of exercise and increasingly-terrible diets will kill people.

    And whenever we have a global economic depression - and make no mistake, the anti-coronavirus measures are going to cause one - we see a rise in political and religious extremism, civil wars and international wars. And they're going to kill a lot of people. The Great Depression and more localised depressions in Europe in the late 20s led to WWII, and that really didn't go well from a health outcomes perspective.

    In terms of the death count, I strongly think there's a risk that the cure is going to be worse than the disease. I'm not an epidemiologist or an expert on deaths due to social causes (I have no idea what the word would even be for that), but I do know how economies work, and I am worried that we're overreacting and haven't considered the broader consequences. Governments have taken a straight medical approach, and I understand why, but a more holistic approach might have led to very different policies and outcomes.

    I don't think governments had a choice: in this social media and 24-hour-news-cycle world, democracies have to deal with the immediate perception problems, and they know they'll be blamed for every coronavirus death and will be criticised for not doing enough, but can probably get away without blame for the deaths caused indirectly by the anti-virus measures. So, politically it makes sense. But I worry that it might be a terrible mistake.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you're siding with the current u.s. administration :p
     
  11. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Yeah, to a degree I probably am. And that's certainly unusual for me.

    You know that story about how Q Anon is encouraging people to kill the coronavirus by gargling or drinking bleach? And everyone is laughing at that because it is so stupid: you might cure the virus, but you'll kill yourself?

    I think that might be a metaphor for what we're doing as a society.
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a couple other people here agree with you. i guess the uncertainty is the problem. if we knew how many were going to die, how many were going to have irreparable lung damage, and how much it is all going to cost us economically, we could more easily make a decision between two poor alternatives
    as it is, only a rew are willing to take the risk
     
  13. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Yes, I agree that the uncertainty is a problem. But there are certainties that we're choosing here too: we know we're choosing econoic contraction, massive unemployment and all of the consequences that brings with it.

    Still, on the bright side, we might inadvertently slow climate change. And reduce overpopulation.

    Yay.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if only one enlightened country would try the other tactic, we might have a better idea of what to do in the future.
    i suppose we have the worst of both worlds right now, acting too late, causing too many deaths and too much economic destruction.
     
  15. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Yes. Australia and Britain both seem to be going for almost-maximum death and absolute-maximum economic and social damage.
     
  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Was this about the same time it became possible to be both extremely poor and seriously or morbidly obese?
     
  17. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    On the social-damage front....

    I mentioned this in the Politics thread, but my recent trips to supermarkets have just led to me absolutely hating everyone and thinking society deserves everything this virus can throw at us.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i often have to fight those feelings...
     
  19. litesong

    litesong Active Member

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    You can drop your $1000 & I'll pick it up.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yeah, but it's all the time, not just now :unsure:
     
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