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Coronavirus vs climate change

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by hkmb, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    I know there's a risk that this will end up getting moved to FHoPolitics, but I'm going to post this here initially because I think it's not a political issue.

    On Sunday night, the Australian Prime Minister gave a speech. It was characteristically pointless and stupid. It was supposed to be about new social-distancing measures and whether or not schools would be closed. (We still have absolutely no clarity on the latter.) But he spent much of it having a rant about irresponsible young people going to the beach. The Chief Medical Officer was there too, and made similar comments. Here are a couple of extracts:

    PRIME MINISTER

    And we need all Australians to be following the health advice when it comes to keeping a healthy distance and observing the limits that relate to gatherings, whether they be outdoor or they be indoor. This is incredibly important. The failure of our public to do that will put people at risk and make it extremely difficult for governments to be able to take actions that can control the flow and spread of this virus. Governments must do their bit and we are, but we need Australians to do their bit. On the weekend, what we saw was a disregard of those social distancing practices as people turned up to the beach in large numbers, crammed venues in our major cities. As I flagged this morning, this sent a very clear message to premiers, chief ministers and myself that the social distancing practices are not being observed as well as they should be.

    CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER

    If Australia is going to get through the challenge of this pandemic over the coming months, we have to live differently. We’ve been making that point very clear over the last week. But it's also clear that some people haven't got it. And I'm particularly talking to young people who may think they're immune to the effects of this virus. And it's true, most young people don't get significant disease. But as a young person, you don’t want to be responsible for the severe and possibly fatal disease of an older, vulnerable Australian. We have to stop the rapid spread of this virus.

    ........

    We are going to live differently if we're going to get through this virus without serious impacts on the vulnerable in our community and serious impacts on the health system.


    Bondi Beach was pretty busy on Saturday. It is media and social-media outrage over this that has driven some of this speech. I've seen similar stuff about Spring Break kids going to the beach in Florida.

    All of this really made me think.

    For the past 20 years, we've seen the following conversation, over and over again. (I know this is PriusChat, and that the old people on here are generally pretty responsible, but I think this is a fair generalisation.)

    YOUNG PEOPLE: Climate change is going to make life terrible for all of us in the future.
    OLD PEOPLE: No it isn't.
    YOUNG PEOPLE: Yes it is. And it will kill millions of us, and destroy the lives of millions more. We really need you to address it. Please could you make some minor changes to your lifestyle over the next 10-20 years? Maybe pay slightly more for energy, and invest in green energy, and switch to electric cars?
    OLD PEOPLE: No. I like V8s. I like big ICE cars. I like coal miners having jobs. I like travelling wherever I want, whenever I want. It would cost too much for us to change our lifestyles. I don't want to spend up to 30 minutes charging an electric car. Coal miners would lose their jobs, and there are several of them. We could lose up to 1% in GDP growth rates if we follow your ridiculous greenie plans.
    YOUNG PEOPLE: But if you don't do this, we will suffer and many of us will die.
    OLD PEOPLE: I don't care. I will be gone by then. And I am not willing to pay for something that does not directly affect me. I like my lifestyle and I am not going to change it.
    THE GOVERNMENT: We are not going to do anything about this. Maybe a few token measures that might help us reach some pointless target over the next 30 years, but nothing that would actually impact the lifestyle of old people or have a short-term impact on the economy. ​

    Over the last two weeks, we've seen this conversation:

    OLD PEOPLE: There is coronavirus. It is spreading and it will kill some old people.
    YOUNG PEOPLE: Yes, that is true.
    OLD PEOPLE: It will kill tens of thousands of us, and make others of us sick. We need to address it. So we will. By "we", we mean "you". All of you who are baristas or bar staff or waiters or cooks will lose your jobs. Your education will stop. You will not be allowed to have a social life. You will not be allowed to go out. You will not be allowed to travel. Your career prospects will disappear. GDP growth will take a hit of 2-5% (optimistically). Rather than doing this over the next 30 years like we're not going to do for your problem, you will do all of this by Tuesday.
    YOUNG PEOPLE: So when you said it was too expensive to address the climate change that will kill millions of us, it's not too expensive to lose much more money to address a disease that will kill far fewer?
    OLD PEOPLE: YES, BUT THAT WAS STUFF THAT AFFECTED YOUNG PEOPLE! WE ARE OLD! YOU WILL DO OUR BIDDING!
    THE GOVERNMENT: If you don't comply with these rules to protect some old people, you will be arrested.
    Basically, why the F should these young people stop going to the beach when they're not allowed to work? Old people have not cared about them for a generation, and have refused to pay the very minor economic and social prices required to address a very serious and deadly problem. And now those very same old people are OUTRAGED that a few young people aren't quite making all of the massive changes to their lives that they were asked to make a couple of days ago. Really, what do the young owe the old over this?

    When Australia's Chief Medical Officer said, "If Australia is going to get through the challenge of this pandemic over the coming months, we have to live differently", he was saying what Greta Thunberg has been saying - about far smaller changes in our life to overcome a far bigger challenge - over the last year. And our Prime Minister said she should "go back to school".

    Honestly, I'm really not very impressed.
     
    #1 hkmb, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ironically, responsible older folks want something done about cc, and responsible younger folks are telling their parents to PLEASE STAY HOME.
     
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  3. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Indeed. But it's not the responsible ones who decide policy. If only it were.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    so true. even when we had a responsible adult running things here, the change is just too slow
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I got home around 17:30 to turn on the evening news only to discover all three, evening news programs had been pre-empted by a similar, nonsense, press conference. Once I realize what was going on, we went to YouTube channels to get facts and data.

    So I called CBS and followed up with web complaint that future 'live' broadcasts be delayed an hour while fact-checkers made their notes. Then replay the 'press conference' with fact-checker text scrolling across the bottom. All three major networks echoed the same fictions.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    ... seemingly a deliberate strategy to displace more of the so-called 'fake news', hide the enemy from more people.

    At least it can't be done simultaneously to all time zones.
     
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  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Easy fix.
    Leave it turned off.

    @ COVID - Climate Change.......

    I've often heard (and sometimes SAID) that trying to battle climate change would wreck the economy.....;)
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Change the channel to YouTube or the news APPs.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Thank goodness for replays of past basketball games. Even games I know the outcome of are more interesting than the blatherer in chief.

    As an ex b'ball referee, I love watching the games and making the calls. Those striped shirt folks are good which is not to say they don't make the wrong call some times. Mostly because of the rigidity of the three ref positioning. I ref'ed in the 2 ref days and we had the freedom to position ourselves seeing the play developing to best position ourselves to see what would happen. Which is not to say I don't think of blown calls I made 30 years ago from time to time.
     
  10. Mark57

    Mark57 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD

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    I quickly noticed how old they were because they were all in standard def. I'm too used to that nice over the air high def picture. Having to "rough it" all around with SD TV. :eek::D
     
  11. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Young and old see viruses and climate change differently. Age changes our interpretation of fear, and our perspective of risk. When we're young, we do stupid things because they're fun. We're happy to take on more risk in exchange for adrenaline. Pain is something to be endured, a badge of honour earned in the accomplishment. When we're old, risk is scary, and pain just hurts. It's a warning sign not to do that, which appears all too often, and generally decades too late.

    A virus is no big deal when you're young and invincible. Chances are low you'll get it, and if you do, you'll recover to be young and invincible again. When going out in public and getting sneezed upon can kill you, the perception of risk is far more acute, and the old people, who generally make the rules, are going to change those rules for everyone. It's a pandemic, kids, and we haven't had one of these since the last time half the world's human population was killed. Time to panic!

    Climate change is less scary when you're old and typically see things the way they've always been done. There's no real sense of impending doom spurring you to action. The sky didn't fall last year, and it probably won't next year either. People need jobs, we all have to eat, and drive to work...but when you're young and seeing the big picture for the first time (and it's a different big picture than it used to be) I can understand where the anger and resentment comes from. It's time to panic, and nobody seems to care. We could and should have made changes long ago, but nope, we were too busy having fun and making money to really notice. Far too many of us still are.
     
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