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Aux Batteries keep dying

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by cbird02, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. cbird02

    cbird02 Junior Member

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    I purchased a Bosch AGM about 15 months ago. It gave up 3 months ago so it lasted 1 year. I figured on a junk battery. I took in for warranty and they didn't have any in stock so they gave me an Optima yellow top. I started getting no starts after 3 months with the battery dying on me. I tested the voltage at the battery with the car running and it is at 13.8V. As soon as I turn off the car it starts plummeting down to around 8V. Bad cell.

    This seems odd to me and I am wondering if there is anything I should check out? Maybe it was two bad lemons - I don't know. I have 150,000 miles and live in Tucson, AZ.
     
  2. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    The Optima's don't have a very good reputation.

    Check your charging voltage again.
    13.8 really isn't enough under most circumstances.

    The heat in Arizona tends to be hard on batteries......but not THAT hard.
     
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  3. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^

    What Sam said.
     
  4. cbird02

    cbird02 Junior Member

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    With brand new Optima installed, the resting voltage is 12.6v and the running voltage is 13.9v. I turned on accessories and it held strong at 13.9v. I am checking with voltage meter directly on the battery.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sounds like your good, but i would charge it up. a new battery should be around 13v
     
  6. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Are you driving far enough per trip to keep it charged? If not, it'll gradually get lower and lower.
     
  7. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    There should be no more than a 0.5A drain with the key in the house, all doors closed and the vehicle "fully off". I find that add-on stuff, from usb chargers in hot-at-all-times sockets, to stereo equipment or other stuff can kill a battery in a few days of sitting.
     
  8. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    AND.....13.9 is just barely enough to keep an AGM battery charged if full to start with.
    I don't KNOW that it should be higher than that but I strongly suspect it.......since your 12.6 is NOT fully charged for and AGM.
     
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  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Even 0.5 Amp drain will drain the battery in a few days. The 'off' drain needs to be far lower than that.

    Does the Gen2 even have an always-on 12V socket? My Gen3 socket is automatically turned off.
     
  10. cbird02

    cbird02 Junior Member

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    This is my question. I have a Bluetooth adapter plugged in but in don't think any socket is always on.
     
  11. cbird02

    cbird02 Junior Member

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    This was after the ride home from Pep Boys about 4 miles. My regular mechanic seemed to think 13.9 was fine.
     
  12. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    After 40 mins in the state described by 05PreeUs, the quiesced draw should be 20-50 mA

    A brand new AGM battery should have a resting voltage of ~13.2 V after charging. An AGM charger will charge at between 13.7 and 14.4 V (depending on the stage of charge and the battery's SoC) to achieve that. Immediately you remove the charger after charging it will be ~13.7 V, but this (surface charge) will quickly bleed off within 10-15 min to settle at its resting voltage. A brand new battery should always be fully charged before being put into service to check this.

    I would do a further investigation of your issues to confirm whether the battery is faulty or you have a parasitic draw.
     
    #12 dolj, Apr 17, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2020
  13. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Which is typical of most "mechanics" who really know little to nothing about electronics.
    An AGM battery at 12.6 is only about 75% charged.
    A wet cell battery requires about a tenth of a volt per cell extra for a good float voltage......so 13.2 total.
    And AGM needs about another tenth per cell; so something around 13.8 for FLOAT......which means just maintaining the charge without adding much or any.
     
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  14. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    You insist on continuing to say that......and I think it is wrong.
    Do you have some reference that leads you to believe that ??
    I can't find anything that says the true resting voltage should be more than 12.9.
     
  15. cbird02

    cbird02 Junior Member

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    I have removed the negative terminal on my battery and hooked my 0-4A AGM charger all day. It finished its cycle and I let it rest for 15 minutes and got a resting voltage of 13.3 V. Do I just hook the negative terminal back up, let it sit overnight and check the voltage tomorrow to test for parasitic draw?
     
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would let it sit overnight disconnected, then check it.

    reconnect, check it tomorrow night after it has been off an hour, then check it again sunday morning.

    that should give you a pretty good idea where you're at.
     
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  17. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Further to what bisco said and extending on that, that voltage looks good, leave it disconnected to sit overnight and confirm that it is still 13.x Volts. If it has dropped to (say) 12.4 V or less, you may have an issue. That issue may be just a bad battery, especially if you have dipped below 12.0 V overnight. If that is not the case, you can connect up the battery and retest the next day. If it has dropped to (say) 12.4 V or less, you may have an issue with parasitic draw.

    At this point, you could put a multimeter (set to Amps – start at the highest and work down to lower scales) in series between negative post and ground, see what current (Amp) is currently being drawn. To do this successfully, you need to make sure all key fobs are more than 3 yards away from the car, have all doors shut and the ammeter connected in a way that you can see it from outside You then wait for 30 - 40 min to ensure the car has fully quiesced (i. e. all unnecessary systems have shut down). In this state, the draw should be ~20 mA, with very short periodic bursts to 40-50 mA.

    If it is higher than this, you will then need to perform some testing for parasitic draw.

    This is a good video that will give you the concept: How to Perform a Parasitic Draw Test | EricTheCarGuy

    Good luck with your endeavors.
     
    #17 dolj, Apr 18, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
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  18. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Almost. That 13.3 is not a "real" voltage but what is most often called "surface charge".
    The voltage will drop rather quickly to the real resting value once a load is applied or it sits for 24 hours.

    So.....you need to hook up the cable, which will activate some onboard systems and draw off the extra surface charge.
    Take your "base" reading after about an hour.......and then let it sit overnight to see how much more it drops.

    Note: It really is NOT necessary to disconnect anything to charge the battery in place.
     
  19. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Charging the battery is treating the symptom not determining the cause.

    This. Please describe daily use.
     
  20. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Not necessarily true.
    That usually should be the FIRST step in determining the cause.......of any electrical anomaly.