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Getting ready to do EGR/manifold/throttlebody, etc. cleaning-have lots of questions-long post-sorry

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by H00s13r, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    JEG's has similar but cheaper.You can always start with cheap can, see how it goes. Experiment with different internal media/baffles. Switch the can later if you want.
     
  2. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    True, Mendel is using the best can. There are many other brands.
     
  3. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Times 2 as well:p.

    But whose counting (y).
     
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  4. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    The Reuin catch can in Amazon is what I had on our old Gen3;).

    It worked well and was $25:).

    You don't need the gold plated version, you want a functional solution(y).
     
  5. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    You only need the ratcheting box end wrench for the rear of the EGR cooler. I think it’s 12mm, but I’m not certain. You can buy a cheap set from Harbor Freight
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Think you're right on all that, if two fuzzy memories are better than one. A ratcheting box wrench is not mandatory, but it's nice.

    Again again again, cup a hand under that back connection when you finally pull it off, cus the gasket will drop.
     
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  7. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    What's mandatory is leaving the lower cooler support nut off;).

    That's too fiddly to replace :cool:.

    Start your own collection(y).
     
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  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    By "kit" that some sort of knee-brace on the fourth gen cooler?
     
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  9. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    An iPhone typo at first:mad:.

    But the Gen4 / Prime has PARTSthat are not needed;).

    Not just nuts(y).
     
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  10. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    Thanks the suggestions on the catch cans guys. When the time comes I will be sure to check them out.

    So here is an update. I had to work the past couple of days, so I was off today and continued this morning. I jack standed the car, and proceeded to drain the coolant. I went ahead and did a complete drain of the entire engine cooling system. Using some new 5/16" diameter clear vinyl tubing, it slide right onto the drain stopcock port and I then cut it about a foot and ran it into a freshly cleaned milk gallon jug. I filled the entire jug, closed stopcock, then put tubing into cleaned soda 2 liter bottle and continued. It got down to barely a trickle. I let it go for about 30 minutes, and then just closed the port and lowered the car back down.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I then started dismantling the throttle body. Draining the coolant really did help. I bought some doggy training pads (basically like a big diaper) and laid one under the coolant hoses so in the event when I took them off any coolant that came out would be caught by the pads, but none really came out which was nice. I then proceeded to remove the throttle body. Man it was oily. [​IMG]

    There was a small pool of oil sitting at the bottom of the manifold where the throttle body bolts on. I managed to soak most of it up with a paper towel.
    [​IMG]

    Next I completely removed the manifold assembly. It too is pretty filthy.
    [​IMG]

    So with everything out, I took a look at and into the cylinders. They too are filthy and very oily.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I then proceeded to work on the EGR cooler. Now here is where some coolant did come out, but again using the pads I managed to catch most of it. When I took off the large coolant hose on the side a fair amount of coolant came out. Some did drip down onto back of engine and onto my garage floor, but I had some cardboard and another pad down there to catch it. I wiped most of it up with a paper towel. Once I have the EGR cooler off I will clean up the rest. I got all the rest of the coolant hoses off the cooler, but I had to stop at those bolts in the back. I need that ratching 12mm box end wrench. I am going to harbor freight in the morning to get the wrench, some long needle nose pliars (luckily I had some long 90dgree ones which helped), along with some torx sockets (need a T8 socket to take off the studs that those nuts are on).
    So my plan is once I have all parts off, I will clean off everything. I want to plug the egr cooler and pipe and fill them with something to soak. I want to take the sensors off the TB and soak them as well, and the manifold either soak it or fill it somehow as well. What is the best thing to use to do this? I have read about people using hot water/oxiclean, oven cleaner, carb cleaner, brake cleaner, purple power? (not sure what that is). What do you guys recommend?
    I also want to clean the cylinder and inside. NAB in his video just wipes them out with a rag. Is that the best thing to do? I know not to really spray anything in there or wipe the top (fuel injectors are there), but can I spray something on a rag and then wipe them out? What about the exterior surface around the cylinders. You can see by my pics it is pretty oily/filthy.

    Thanks for your continued help and suggestions.
     
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  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    You could try hot/concentrated Oxi-Clean solution poured into the cooler, and leave it about an hour. Drain, rinse out, repeat, about 5~6 times.

    If it's really badly clogged, you may need to first open up the passageways with wire, or pressure washer. Maybe alternate methods.

    The pipe you can just clean with brake cleaner and brushes, pretty easy.

    Don't use oxi on the valve: it's mostly aluminum, will react with it. Again, just brake cleaner and brushes should suffice. Some disassemble the black cap. I chose not to, found I could just gently pry up the edge of valve, give squirts of brake cleaner, use brushes, q-tips, toothpicks, whatever.

    For the small intake manifold EGR passageways (about 1/4" diameter, one per port), I got a cleaning brush intended for cleaning stainless steel drinking straws. It's just about the right diameter. Push it in a bit, then the straw extension of brake cleaner can, give it a squirt, then work it in with the brush. Works a charm.

    Long story short: I would ONLY use Oxi on the cooler, brake cleaner on everything else. And rinse it off WELL, it reacts with certain metals, and the intake manifold bolts, and basically anything non-stainless.

    That throttle body pic btw: ugh...
     
    #31 Mendel Leisk, Apr 30, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
  12. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    Thanks. I need to go to grocery store tomorrow too, so I will pick up some oven cleaner to try too. I already have oxiclean for when I do the laundry. Yeah that TB is pretty gunky, hence the reason why I wanted to be able to pull off to clean separately. If anyone else has any other suggestions for cleaning all this stuff I'm all ears.
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    When cleaning the intake manifold, I'd recommend to remove the two throttle body studs (with E6 socket), just to avoid danger of bending them during cleaning. And the MAP sensor, if you haven't already: it's around 6 o'clock, below throttle body. Clean it with something like CRC MAF sensor cleaner, good for sensitive electronics. The MAP sensor looks relatively robust, but they're over $200.

    Maybe use carb cleaner on the throttle body. Not sure how it differs from brake cleaner, maybe a bit more acetone? I seem to recall it might have a wee bit of lubricant too?

    To keep it in the pink, clean it periodically. And trust me, you do not need to drain coolant to access both sides. The hoses have plenty of play.

    For the engine coolant drain, you might want to drain the engine block as well? From what I've heard though, not much comes out? I'm sceptical though: with our years of Honda's, every time the engine block bolt came out (not a nice spigot you could push a tube on) there was a DELUGE.

    Anyway, that engine block drain requires an allen key style socket (not sure of the size, get a metric set?). It's around the back, "relatively" easy to access now, with wipers off. It's up pretty high, back wall of the block, towards passenger end. There's a small allen key style bolt, and below it the spigot, probably same diameter as the radiator spigot. Break it slightly loose first, then push a hose on.

    I'd be interested if you do, to know how much you collect that way. I'm due for coolant change in the fall.
     
    #33 Mendel Leisk, Apr 30, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
  14. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Use a pressure washer on the egr cooler;).

    It makes fast work of the deposits you will find:).

    Good luck and keep us posted(y).
     
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  15. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    If my car was using that much oil I'd be thinking about a new engine.
     
  16. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    Yeah I am going to see if I can borrow my neighbors to use. Thanks! I am going to post up an upate shortly!
     
    #36 H00s13r, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
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  17. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    Why would I think about new engine. The amount of oil I found is consistent with pretty much what everybody else has been finding there.
     
  18. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    So I just want to give you guys an update. I have pretty much been working everyday since I last posted (healthcare worker). So I am off today and I worked more on the car. I went to harbor freight and picked up a ratching box wrench set with 12mm, along with a Torx socket set that included a T8 and when I got home this morning I got to work. It is cold and wet here today, so working out in the garage with door open was pretty miserable, but I got the rest of the stuff off (EGR cooler). Here are some pics
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The nuts and studs on the backside of the EGR came off with the help of that ratching 12mm box wrench and the small T8 socket on a small 1/4" socket wrench. I had to soak the studs and nuts with WD40 to get them to move better. I had a hell of a time getting the nut off that very bottom stud-you can't even really see if at all. My long socket and socket wrench barely got on there. I finally managed to loosen it enough and then reaching around and down from the back with my arm I was able to spin it off by hand and not drop it. I doubt I will be able to get that nut back on when it comes time to put all this back together.
    Now onto the problems I had.
    Take a look at this picture.
    [​IMG]
    The part I really want you to focus on (which is actually out of focus on the pic) is the stud. I got the nut off this stud okay, but when I tried to take out the stud with the T8 socket, it started coming out fine at first and then it got harder to do. I sprayed some WD40 where I could (EGR was still on it), and then turned it back in and then tried going out again and then the torx end of the stud snapped off in the socket!
    I managed to slide the EGR off and get it out(really had to push down on the hose below it and to the right side to get it to slide off. In the process of doing this I forgot about the gasket on the backside of the egr cooler where those back studs are. I can't find it anywhere. I looked all over the back lower part of the engine and the ground under the car but I don't see it anywhere. I thought I remember seeing it on there before I took out the screws.
    Anyways, I guess I will have to order a new one (hopefully I can) from Toyota, but I am not sure what to do with that front stud. I tried clamping some locking vice grips on it, but they just spin and they are starting to mangle up the remaining threads on it. I don't think I am going to be able to get it out, so what I think I am going to do is just cut it off where the threads end and make it a small post that will allow the front part of the EGR to slide on and sit on it. I just wont be able to secure it at that stud with the nut anymore. It will still be held on by other nuts (one on top, the one on the bottom stud if I can get it, and the 2 back studs).
    I am stopping here for today. I have to work the next 3 days again (joy), but I am off this weekend, so my plan is to work on cleaning all the parts on Saturday. I have oxiclean, oven cleaner, some engine degreaser, brake cleaner, and carb cleaner. I do have some questions about cleaning this stuff and what I should avoid getting wet. I know the back half of main half of the EGR cooler along with the EGR pipe I can just soak or fill with oxiclean or whatever I choose to do and then pressure wash spray them to get all the crap out, but I am wondering about these parts

    Front part of EGR cooler
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The part of it circled in red-can I take that off so I can just soak the whole thing or should I just carefully clean it by hand?

    Manifold
    [​IMG]
    Can I take these parts off or should I? If so can I just soak this entire piece? I have a large tub and could fill it with oxiclean/hot water and soak it in there.

    Throttle body
    [​IMG]
    Same questions as above-safe to remove to soak entire thing or just hand clean? I am assuming none of these things I am asking to remove are safe to do so, but I just want to see what you guys say/recommend.

    Some other thoughts
    After I clean all these parts I would like to clean up the parts they go onto. I will be hand cleaning around and gently inside the cylinders where the manifold bolts on, but can you take out the fuel injectors and clean them? Just a thought that popped in my head.

    PCV valve
    I thought I remember seeing in one of the egr cleaning threads on here that someone removed the entire plate where the pcv valve connects and found passages in there loaded with oil and cleaned it all up, but another person didn't recommend doing this because it is not a good idea because it is gasketed in with some kind of gasket epoxy or something. Just wondering.

    In my spare time at work when I have had some downtime, I have been trying to read up in the OCC thread that mendel posted a link to in his first response to me. I think I will be ordering the parts soon for it using Dan's amazon link recommended OCC. I do like the idea of putting it lower below the level of the PCV valve. Mendel, you did this right? Can you only check it/drain it when the car is on stands during an oil change? How did you secure it down there again? Has anyone else done this?

    Anyways, sorry again about another long post in this thread of mine. I look forward to what everyone has to say.
    Thanks!

    PS
    If anyone has any other suggestions for the broken stud please let me know as well.
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    You can reach and open the radiator drain without raising the car, and yeah: a couple of liters drain will drop the coolant level below the EGR components. When everything's reassembled, just pour the coolant back into the reservoir, leaving the coolant bleed valve (black/white contraption atop the EGR, on some coolant hose junction) open. At least until coolant starts coming out. And squeeze the main hoses coming out of the rad, any you can reach, might help. I found doing this, the level ended up a little high in the reservoir, but worked it's way down to normal level with some driving. No further issues.

    That said, raising it and supporting on safety stands makes it a little easier. Also, if you also remove the engine underpanel, the dropped rear gasket might have dropped right down, be laying on the panel. Or you might be able to spot it from below.

    That really sucks that the tip broke off that stud. I know it seemed to fight when I was removing it, and reinstalling. @NutzAboutBolts in his video seems to have trouble with it as well. Not sure what's the best course with that. Lopping off a bit more might be the best bet. Maybe leave enough that you can get a purchase on it, down the road, if you give it another try. FWIW, @Ragingfit did an 4th gen swap into a Prius v, and has the 3rd gen EGR free-spanning between the rear cooler connection and the pipe connectin to intake manifold. I would leave the bottom nut of it's stud too, just because it's such a pain*. Then I think you still have one stabilizing connection, at the top?

    The throttle body I would not disassemble further, just put some carb cleaner on a shop towel, wipe the barrel and blade. FWIW, it is not necessary to disconnect it's coolant lines, but anyway, it's done.

    * Just because I have time on my hands, I took that lower nut off the other day, with the intention to just leave it off. I got it off, but it took a solid hour, dicking around with every extension, long vs short socket, looseing the cable brackets adjacent.
     
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    with the broken stud, if possible: thread one nut down a ways, then jam a second nut against the first, then try turning the first counterclockwise (restrain the second nut from turning, as needed, with a second wrench or socket), see if you can get the stud turning, backing out.

    Too, I'd leave that PCV valve cover plate to another day, maybe enough on your plate. It does have form in place gasket. Your call. I've got some info, and suggestion for an alternate FIP gasket.

    I managed to clean the EGR valve thoroughly, without removing the black cap. Just used brake cleaner and brushes, and gently pried up the valve with a pen knife blade tip, have a few shots of brake cleaner, ran a wooden popsicle stick style paddle around the edge.

    I just about rounded the screws trying to remove the screws, opted to let sleeping dogs lie.

    Or the fox and the grapes?
     
    #40 Mendel Leisk, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
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