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Is the curtain closing?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by The Electric Me, May 2, 2020.

  1. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    A lot has changed...right now. But a lot has also changed in the past 20 years. The millennial generation has grown up in a considerably different world in terms of technology and expectation.

    I want to talk about Movie Theaters.
    For me growing up, "Going to see a Movie" was a treat. It was something you look forward to, and relished the experience.
    I still love going to see a movie. Before the Covid-19 crisis, I typically would seek out the handful of local, single screen theaters, enjoying the ambiance, the environment of these theaters.
    I would also enjoy 1st run films at chain theaters.

    Both are hurting right now, for obvious reasons.
    Reading some articles about the growing conflict and tension between AMC-theater chain and Universal Studios about the release of the Trolls movie direct to on demand, and posturing about release window timing and rights.
    I'm not on the inside here but it sounds like AMC is threatened, worried about maintaining the advantage of being he venue of 1st release with the majority of movies, while Universal is recognizing that the future might be more and more direct to video, direct to on demand.

    My first reaction personally is to NOT believe we could ever live in a world without movie theaters. But when I look back over changes in just the past 20 years, I think I have to be careful that I'm not whistling past the graveyard here. 20 years ago, I wouldn't of projected the decline of the urban Mall, nor the end of Montgomery Wards, and the struggles of Sears. Nor would I probably of projected a future when media, movies could be instantly distributed on numerous formats. Played and viewed on everything from Big Screen TV's to your cell phone.

    Reading one article of the many I found concerning the AMC/Universal conflict, I was taken by the comment section of the article which had a majority of comments that seemed to reflect that a LOT people didn't care if theaters went the way of the Dodo bird.
    I read a lot "So What?" " I don't like people talking during the Movie", "Concession Prices are ridiculous" " I prefer watching movies at home".

    Which as a person that enjoys, remembers Movie Theaters fondly, really bothers me.
    But how do I argue to a Millennial that the loss of theaters would indeed be a loss? A large screen TV, or even just their computer screen, iPad, or Cellphone all seem to be acceptable even preferred formats for them. They weren't raised in a time when "Going to the Movies" was part of the fabric of entertainment itself.

    I'd rather not live in a world that no longer has Movie theaters. But I can't deny this crisis, and just the reality of the world we live in MIGHT be rapidly closing the curtain on a part of my life I have always enjoyed.
    I value entertainment that pulls us away from our Televisions, computers, and cellphones. To the magical penumbra of a theater.
    But I also feel I'm in a rapidly dwindling population that may share the same feelings.
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i see exactly the opposite. movie theaters were supposed to be doomed with the invention of the vcr, but they reinvented themselves into mini theaters with stadium seating and surround sound.

    they were consistantly packed in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and right up until a few months ago.

    the demand is there. people of all generations love to 'go out'.

    the only question is if they can find a way to prevent disease. it won't be easy, but other contained areas like airplanes and cruise ships will have the same task in front of them.
     
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  3. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    The "Video" revolution is considerably different, I think to the threat today.
    Primarily because of the "Window of Release" threat.
    For the whole age of "Be Kind Rewind" of videos, you still had Theaters as the venue of 1st release. If you wanted to see a Movie, first run, that run was in a theater. Not to mention at that time, for most VCR's the largest screen they were hooked up to was maybe 31 inches--square, with a really pretty crappy speaker.

    Today, IF studios move to bypass the given advantage of first run at the theater, on demand means the large screen TV's a majority of people have, as well as soundbars and headphones.

    I also would say Theaters have been facing a challenge even before the Covid-19 crisis. Big releases, for example a "Star Wars" movie, might find theaters packed, but I think crowds have been overall dwindling.
    Some of the large chain theaters, even trying things like showing Opera, recorded plays, and various "one time events" to lure audience back to the theater.

    I'm totally optimistic that someday..SOMEDAY the threat of Covid-19 will pass. That won't be an issue anymore as to whether people "should" go to the theater. It's a temporary reality.

    But studios realizing that release directly to on demand, or simultaneous release may be a profitable business pattern, and I think a younger population NOT so enthusiastic about theater going as a whole?

    Well I hope you are right.
    But I think the threat is unique, different and real.
     
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  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    If studios still want the bragging rights of big opening "weekend" numbers, then they need first release at theaters. I think they will because of greed. In the first 2 weeks of a movie's screening at a theater, the entire ticket price goes to the studio; the theater makes nothing. It means a quick return for big cost productions. Other venues bring in money, but I don't see them doing so as quickly.

    Switching to a somewhat related media, video games are released at a high price. So many people will pay that price. Then a year or so later, when no longer later, the game can be had for a discounted price, and more buy it then. The argument has been made that they could make the same, or more, if the intro price was less buy getting more buyers from the beginning. The industry hasn't change.

    Now, I think studios will have to give up some of that initial ticket price in order to support theaters. Then some genre's will be better served with simultaneous release on other venues. Family films, like Trolls, is one of those, as corralling kids to a theatre to sit still for an hour plus may not be what parents want to do.
     
  5. bisco

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    maybe it's different around here. no struggling theaters. even the 'old time movie houses in the small downtown areas have reinvented themselves to popular acclaim. might be a northeast phenomenon, idk. also, when we winter in orlando, with all the things to do, still hard to find a movie that's not packed.
     
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  6. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    For what it's worth, I hope you are both right. I hope the Movie Theater rebounds from this immediate crisis and thrives long term.
    And even pessimistically I'm not saying that I think the Covid-19 crisis will pass and Theater would immediately nose dive.
    But my concern is just the framework for an evolution that I think could send movie theater in the same direction as drive in theaters. The primary threat being the relationship between theaters and studios and the whole process of Movie release. With the additional idea that I'm not sure the average Millennial and those following, value the Movie Theater experience as much as previous generations.

    Again, I hope you are right.
    But from what I have read, Universal was pretty happy with the numbers AND financial return they saw from the Trolls movie. Evidently at $20 a rental, they made pretty good "Opening Weekend" numbers.
    Of course the key is how much of the success was actually acceptance of the format, and how much is people forced to do so, as an action of self isolation?
    But the success of the direct to on demand release of Trolls, at least has studios sniffing around the idea of adapting their approach to movie releases.

    Plus to an extent the horse has already left the barn.
    You already have a trend of "Made for on Demand" movies and films. Netflix Originals, Amazon Prime Originals.
    I think 5 years ago, a film like "The Irishman" would of had a "normal" Theater release.
    The Irishman, had a "limited" theater release of only 26 days before being sent directly to Netflix.
    And streaming services themselves are just getting more and more into the business of funding and creating their own projects for their own use...this bypasses theaters.
     
    #6 The Electric Me, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have to admit, mine is just observation. i know nothing about the business relationships, nor any of their balance sheets for that matter.

    i do know one thing for sure. being in the susceptible class of people, i won't be going to any enclosed places for a long time.
     
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  8. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    I can see drive-ins making a comeback, but it will be difficult to sneak in someone in a hatchback... ;)
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what killed the drive in? i loved them as a kid, but when i had kids, they were gone. (mostly)
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There is actually a drive in theater still operating somewhere near me.

    I think the Trolls success is something with the conditions today. Some movies were being simultaneous released on demand as in theaters for the past few years already.

    The effect of Netflix and Amazon is a question though.
     
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  11. KennyGS

    KennyGS Senior Member

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    I stopped going to movie theaters when it became clear that parents stopped teaching their children how to behave responsibly, and in many cases even adults can't act courteously in public. I agree that there is definitely an experience to be had by attending a feature film release at a top-notch theater. Unfortunately for me, the trade off of waiting until I can see it from the comfort of my own house has outweighed the desire to now endure the theater experience.

    I do see the potential for drive-ins coming back, especially with the updated technology today compared to when I was a kid. I still remember my parents taking me and my brother, when we were really young, in our PJ's so we were all ready for bed by the time we got home.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #11 KennyGS, May 3, 2020
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
  12. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    We apparently have a drive-in movie place near here, doing banner business with COVID.
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Some pics of the Patricia Theatre in Powell River. First movie I can recall seeing, was 20,000 Leagues, I was maybe 4~5?

    upload_2020-5-3_9-13-15.png
    (We saw Karate Kid :rolleyes:)

    Went on a tour which included an after-hours look-see inside:

    The original seats, they were just in the process of switching them (for the old Vancouver Orpheum seats IIRC):
    upload_2020-5-3_9-15-3.png
    View from the balcony. When I was a kid there was an unspoken rule, Sliammon (First Nation) attendees sat in the balcony. And me and my dad, for 20K Leagues IIRC.
    upload_2020-5-3_9-18-39.png
    Projection room. They've since modernized, this is about a decade back:
    upload_2020-5-3_9-19-24.png

    Saw a lot of movies there:

    Mutiny on the Bounty
    Lawrence of Arabia
    Bridge on the River Kwai
    North by Northwest
    It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World
    Help

    A few stinkers too.

    It's still going, down right now though of course.
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i need somebody...
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Took me about 10 seconds to catch on, lol.
     
    #15 Mendel Leisk, May 3, 2020
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
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  16. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    Think gramophone vs. streaming music or even a digital MP3 player. Which would you rather listen to TODAY?

    With VR sets becoming more and more popular, I believe they will be used for enjoying motion pictures in a way that no present day medium can compete with. No need to leave your comfy chair or change out of pajamas, either. Movie theaters are history. They just don't realize it yet (or maybe they do). Once our generation is gone, who will want them?
     
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  17. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Well, these are points I wanted to discuss.
    I can only HOPE you're wrong.
    I take some solace in the temporary resurgence of Drive In Theaters. Even though I personally think the resurgence is temporary and a direct result of the Covid-19 crisis, I do think it demonstrates at least 1 thing. People still enjoy going OUT. There is and will still be a social gathering aspect to GOING to a theater. I don't think this is duplicated at home with whatever level of technology.
    Is this enough to save movie theaters? I don't know. If they can also maintain the advantage of being the primary outlet of 1st release of films...perhaps. If we've also seen something else come out of this crisis, it's that there is a limit to how much time people want to spend sitting on their own couches.
    However, I think your observations, points are embraced by a lot of the younger generation. So once again I can only HOPE you are wrong.
     
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  18. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    This is exactly what I love about those unfortunately disappearing single screen theaters. I love the architecture, the look, the actual feel only possible in these theaters. Even today, walking into those theaters, to perhaps watch a older classic film is as close to time travel as I can imagine. That's the experience I hope always remains.

    When I was a kid, two of my best memories. were a both "surprise" movie theater experiences, when one afternoon my Mother took me to see the Gene Wilder in "Willy Wonka".
    And like you, similarly one time my Dad surprised me with a trip to see Disney's 20,000 leagues under the sea.
    Both those films to this day -remain nostalgic favorites of mine.

    I also grew up in the mid-70's when you really had the birth of the summer Blockbuster phenomena. When you would turn on your local nightly news to see a story about the around the block lines of people, lining up at the theaters to see Jaws, The Exorcist, or Star Wars.

    There was no social distancing. Person to person lines, crammed theaters. But the excitement of event, really was unparalleled. Even if that event was happening in your local small theater.

    I hope this never disappears.
    But I fear this crisis, and simply changing perceptions about what is the best way to view and watch media, may take a hard toll on the entire movie theater industry.
     
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  19. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I understand your point.
    But I had to laugh. Because I own a standing gramophone player. I think it's amazing. My mother bought years ago, and it was antique way back when she bought it.
    I have a small collection of records that work on it. And one is a recording of Lionel Barrymore as Scrooge in " A Christmas Carol", I still like to wind the Gramophone up and listen to that recording every December.

    There's a back-lash. I hear of an entire generation of younger people buying turntables, and listening to vinyl records.
    So all hope is not lost.
    Some people evaluate the fringes, the nearly intangibles of an experience as opposed to the computerized, digitized path of least resistance to a perfect clarity 1's and 0's feedback.

    I'll stand on those battle lines as long as I can.
     
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  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nobody wants to sit around on their sofa in their pajama's. and stay-at-home proves it

    there will be people scared to go to any enclosed public venue when they start reopening, and that will probably cause some business problems.

    but short of a long term virus problem, movie theaters probably won't be affected anymore than any other similar business.
    again, idk what the west coast was like, but they were booming around here.

    i ve 30 somethings and know plenty of younger people who relish going to the movies. if you haven't been, you missed seeing the age groups in the lobbies