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I'm Too Old To Fix These Things

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Sam Stone, Apr 29, 2020.

  1. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The P1121 and P1122 codes are already plenty specific; what they are telling the OP is already covered in the "detection condition" boxes of the two attachments SFO has supplied (which were summarized in #28).

    The troubleshooting is past the point where a fancier code scanner will shed more light on this issue. What will shed more light is getting in with a multimeter and finding why the WBAD voltage is stuck below 0.2V and where the fault is that's doing that.

    The attachments above have troubleshooting steps to guide doing that.

    One benefit that a fancier scantool (read Techstream) would offer is the ability to do active tests, where you command the ECU to make some change while you are watching somewhere with your meter.

    The first attachment above (for P1121) does suggest some uses of the active test feature in the workup steps. But remember that P1121 is the more generic, "functional" test ("I told the valve to move and my sensor reading didn't change, why is that?").

    The P1122 is more specific than that ("uhh, looks like sensor reading didn't change cos it's flat-out stuck below 0.2 V which isn't even a sensor reading....") and that workup procedure doesn't call for any fancy active tests. Ordinary skill with a multimeter is what's needed there.
     
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  3. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    You are a good man and I will certainly let you know what I find. After I looked at your first post on this stuff I started thinking this direction but I'm simply not capable of mentally processing much without 1-2-3 assistance right now. I need the challenge to keep my mind active in the first place, but that doesn't translate to functionality as much as it did before my illness. There was a time in my career where I did a considerable amount of public speaking, and probably my most meaningful motivation now is to regain enough health to advocate for others who have experienced similar health issues and offer education for loved ones. I want you to know your kindness is the very first thing I will discuss. I can't thank you enough for your courtesy, understanding, and patience.
     
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  4. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    How many miles are on the vehicle, and how long have you owned it. Has the vehicle been maintained per the scheduled maintenance guide

    Some need a visual workup with pictures to reference, or create a mental game plan before attempting the unknown, and the above step by step workups may actually help, with all of the related detection conditions, trouble areas, and measured voltages and temperatures to reference in one place. Techstream could make it easier to trouble shoot, and it may just uncover some other unknown codes/DTCs.

    Is the coolant level in the radiator at the proper level, not only at the coolant overflow tank.

    Do we know how much coolant was removed from the system, and in turn replaced once the job was completed? (makes it easier)

    Has the sensor located at the coolant heat recovery system canister failed, corroded, or possibly become disconnected?

    The last time we changed the fluids, and after a failed 'jumper' attempt, we started and stopped the engine for XX seconds, which engaged the CHRS pump, after the engine turns off you can hear it filling the canister, and again emptying upon starting, then cycle as necessary.

    If the paperclip trick is more your speed, I can find the link/thread or someone else will post it here for you.
     
    #44 SFO, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
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  5. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    One thing for sure Mr. Stone, you sure write good!!
     
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  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    What paperclip trick?

    The fellow has an electrical signal, coming back from a potentiometer attached to a valve, that is supposed to be between 0.2 volts and 4.8 volts, and changing when the valve moves.

    It isn't. It's stuck at "less than 0.2 volts", which may very well mean zero volts, as in an open connection or wire.

    Finding that and fixing it will make these codes go away.

    Could the car have other codes or other issues? Well, why not? Maybe mine does. But the fellow started this thread about this issue and these codes.
     
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  7. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    I have a constant companion who calls himself Mr. Insomnia, and he is a difficult task master. Sometimes he wakes me up at 3:30 in the morning so I can see such great interest in helping me. Unfortunately, he doesn't wake my brane with the rest of me so the first moment later today I'm cognizant I will try to get you the answers to your questions. Thank you for the generous amount of time you sacrificed putting your thoughts together for my family and myself.
     
  8. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    Thank you, kind sir. I always thought englis are my goodest subjikt.
     
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  9. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    So I finally get my stoopid brane to shut off somewhere between 1:30 and 2 am and I'm concerned enough I'm back less than 2 hours later. It would be rude not to thank you for all you've been offering, but I also feel responsible to warn you it may be afternoon before I'm able to get the mental jumper cables to work. Once I'm thinking in multisyllabic words again I'll get you some answers. I wish you guys were paid for your help so I could write Mr. Prius Chat and strongly recommend he gives you raises or bonuses. I keep repeating how taxing this is on a mind that no longer functions as it once did, but no one has yet complained. Thank you.
     
  10. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    Believe it or not, I will be brief (running out of go-juice). The car has 220,000 and we bought it used. Since we've had it, we always maintain a very close if not perfect maintenance regimen. Tires, oil, battery, etc . We put a new hybrid battery in it about 50,000 miles ago and a new 12V a few days ago. All cells and the 12V check out with multimeter. I had to replace the fluid control valve and canister about 6 months ago, and I'm only guessing on the terminology. That was when the red triangle first showed up with p1121 and I spent six weeks one afternoon bleeding/burping it after replacing the parts. It was happy for 5 of those months. When I put the fluids in I was very careful to follow Prius Chat protocol to the letter and all levels seem to be where they should be.
    I have located 2 supposedly unrelated anomalies. First, I don't actually see the coolant flowing when I have the radiator cap off with the engine running, but the coolant control valve is churning through the reservoir perfectly. Second, in the fuses underneath the hood I'm not getting a reading from the top green 30A fuse or any of the ones directly below it. Every wire, fuse, prong, harness, etc I can find still show good readings.

    Thank God I'm not a mechanic because I would have to be honest next time I tell my shrink I'm no longer suicidal. I would be inching much closer to homicidal.

    Thanks for your time.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    was that an oem hybrid battery?
     
  12. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    Believe it or not, I will be brief (running out of go-juice). The car has 220,000 and we bought it used. Since we've had it, we always maintain a very close if not perfect maintenance regimen. Tires, oil, battery, etc . We put a new hybrid battery in it about 50,000 miles ago and a new 12V a few days ago. All cells and the 12V check out with multimeter. I had to replace the fluid control valve and canister about 6 months ago, and I'm only guessing on the terminology. That was when the red triangle first showed up with p1121 and I spent six weeks one afternoon bleeding/burping it after replacing the parts. It was happy for 5 of those months. When I put the fluids in I was very careful to follow Prius Chat protocol to the letter and all levels seem to be where they should be.
    I have located 2 supposedly unrelated anomalies. First, I don't actually see the coolant flowing when I have the radiator cap off with the engine running, but the coolant control valve is churning through the reservoir perfectly. Second, in the fuses underneath the hood I'm not getting a reading from the top green 30A fuse or any of the ones directly below it. Every wire, fuse, prong, harness, etc I can find still show good readings.

    Thank God I'm not a mechanic because I would have to be honest next time I tell my shrink I'm no longer suicidal. I would have to admit I'm now homicidal.

    I'm sorry, but I feel I need to admit something. As hard as I try, I haven't been able to give it my all these last few weeks. No one I've ever come across wants to be known for mental illness, but the facts are what they are. Since I became ill, more often than not the depth of depression and anxiety I experience over smaller things render me useless and by natural extension major problems become exponentially compounded. So if I'm sometimes slow responding you will have an honest guess as to why. However, this illness has been a great blessing to me because I am having to learn how to push harder than ever before and I have seen the best side of my family and friends. Just as importantly, I want you to know it's also why I talk so much about the kindness of strangers.

    Thank you all.
     
  13. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    I messed up and posted a copy of this long post but added an extremely important paragraph or two on the repeat. Please read that if you have time.
     
  14. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    Regrettably, no.
     
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  15. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Please try following the workups above (1,2,3, step by step), and if you don't understand a particular step, jump ahead to the next step, and if you have troubles understanding one of the steps, then please come back and post here so we can happily attempt to walk you through it.

    My bad, thought there was still the potential for air in the system and that OP was still struggling with such.

    I can link to the described paper clip jumper 'trick' for the CHRS pump relay socket, some posts even have picture/video as well.

    @ChapmanF you most likely already know if DTCs (P1121 and P1122) would toss a RTOD, I didn't and considered they may not.

    Still unsure which OBD2 scanning device is being used, maybe the OP can enlighten us?
     
    #55 SFO, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You're doing great. We all fit PriusChat in between other things that take up time.

    What has seemed funniest to me is that you've got the best excuse of anyone for having difficulty focusing, but the real difficulty focusing has been on our part! (I'm pretty sure bisco in #51 just couldn't resist keeping the running gag going.)

    It sounds like you've been busy checking stuff, maybe even busier than necessary. If you have a multimeter handy, the most important checks would be of one circuit. It is the one labeled WBAD in the second attachment SFO offered earlier—this one:

    https://share.qclt.com/%E4%B8%B0%E7%94%B0%E6%99%AE%E7%91%9E%E6%96%AF%E5%8E%9F%E5%8E%82%E8%8B%B1%E6%96%87%E6%89%8B%E5%86%8Cpdf%E6%A0%BC%E5%BC%8F/Repair%20Manual/04pruisr/05/2054m/cip1120a.pdf

    On page 5 of that, you can see a diagram; it shows the "Water Valve" at the top left and the ECM at the top right, and halfway down the water valve you can see the WBAD signal (pin 5), a Red wire that runs over to the ECM on pin 20 of connector E7.

    That's the circuit that is supposed to be between 0.4 and 2.2 volts (that's on page 4, "component operating range") all the time when the car is on, but in your case, by the time it shows up at the ECM it is less than 0.2 V (P1122 malfunction threshold, same page).

    Our mission is to find out whether the signal starts out in the right range at the valve and something funny happens to it on the way to the ECM, or if it's already funny to begin with.

    That diagram on page 5 is schematic; it doesn't really show what things look like. On the next page you can see drawings of the connectors at the ECM and at the valve, and which pin of each connector is which. That page 6 is also where the "inspection procedure" starts. It's just 3 steps, two on page 6 and the final one on page 7.
     
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  17. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    Thank you. It will have to wait until tomorrow. I want to warn you that if you see something really nasty blaming all of you for the worst things in the world it means my wife is posting using my name because she probably caught me under the hood of her car making comparisons. The reason for the anger would be if I don't feel like arguing I'm probably going to blame someone else.

    Kidding. I won't do that to you. Probably not, anyway. Maybe not? Not very likely? I need to go think about this. Thanks.
     
  18. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    I'm having a question. I called the closest dealership and talked with a tech who said his first thought is to replace the stoopid coolant control valve sensor. He said he can get these things but I can't find one without having to replace the whole apparatus....... Again. I've been rereading the recommendations you've all offered and even though I'm worse than an amateur, it's hot, and I'm overwhelmed, I would have to sell the family dogs to pay for 100 billable hours (or whatever) at the dealership. I realize even they are fallible and I could wind up with multiple trips before the true problem gets fixed. Also,if I sell the dogs I'm going to be living in the car because my wife and son won't let me back home. If the sensor makes sense (redundant duplication of repeated similar words) and I can buy one, is that a prudent direction to go or should I bite the bullet a while longer and continue troubleshooting? I probably won't actually give up until or unless I have to, but I am wearing down.

    As always any input, thoughts, or suggestions from you guys are truly appreciated.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Those guys don't test things. As you've noticed, their hours are expensive, and flinging new parts on is not—for them, I mean, because they're spending your money, not their own. If the first part they fling doesn't solve the problem, they hit you up for more until something does.

    Us mortals, we test things, cos it's our money, and try to only fix or replace the thing that's broke.
     
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  20. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    Thank you for validating my propensity to be cautious. I tell every commission salesperson I run into that I'm cheap AND poor. If they believe me that's usually the end of that particular conversation.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.