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3 alignments, steering wheel off center.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Prius92, May 20, 2020.

  1. Prius92

    Prius92 Member

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    This is driving me insane.

    I bought an 08 Prius last fall with 128k, it has 131k miles on it now.

    I am thinking it may have been previously wrecked, I took it to Toyota twice to get aligned, and even took it to Goodyear today for a second opinion.

    The original aluminum hood was a cheap steel replacement with a rust hole in it. After a small 10mph collision last fall, I had a new fender, hood, and front bumper installed and painted. Also..the steering wheel was off when I got it, before the small wreck.

    Posted below is a pic of the toe adjustment they made on the front end. They said the rear left is "off" but there is no adjustments to it.

    I made a complaint to Toyota and am now wondering if there is something off in the steering column. Before the alignment at Goodyear today, the steering wheel was tilted about 15 degrees to the right, and now it is about 8 degrees to the left. Holding the wheel straight causes it to go to the right. Otherwise it does track straight down the road. But Toyota pissed me off, and said it was "my cheap tires". I had the front tires replaced before they looked at it the 2nd time.

    This is really starting to annoy me. I can understand if the steering wheel is not dead center, but it tires your arms after a while because you cannot hold the wheel straight up and down.

    I even tried taking the steering wheel off and going one spline to the right or left, but that takes it too far left or right and won't center that way either.

    The second photo is how far to the right my steering wheel was before Goodyear aligned it.




    [​IMG]
     
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  2. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Pretty sure there's a procedure in the manual for this. Check some torque values on the steering, correct if needed, put steering wheel dead center then align front wheels, then initialize system....stuff that Toyota should be aware of....feel free to read through the pdf file below
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. Prius92

    Prius92 Member

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    I'm supposed to take it back to Toyota tomorrow morning for them to look at it a 3rd time.

    It literally feels like after it was aligned, the car literally reset the "center" of the steering.
     
  4. ttou68

    ttou68 Active Member

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  5. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    Oh boy...... so very many problems with this and so much work to completely unscrew it.........

    First off, "they" did it WRONG, completely 100% wrong. On a modern vehicle with a SAS (steering angle sensor) you CANNOT just remove the steering wheel and "fix" it's alignment.

    Secondly, the steering "wheel" is factory aligned to both the steering shaft(s) and the steering mechanism (rack&pinion in this case) and anything that disturbs THAT factory alignment, must be undone and the steering wheel re-aligned to the system correctly per the service procedure.

    Thirdly, you DO NOT perform a tire (wheel) alignment by moving the steering mechanism to and fro then checking the steering WHEEL. You center the steering wheel, THEN adjust the tire rod ends to obtain the correct tire alignment settings with the vehicle and steering wheel pointed straight ahead.

    I have not read the actual Toyota procedure, so they may have these basic steps with different specifics, but that is the jest of it.

    Lastly, the above assumes that the vehicle "tracks" straight down the road and is not "dog-tracking". If it is dog-tracking, the "frame" is bent or the rear axle off-set to one side and they are right, it is not "adjustable".
     
  6. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Not sure which part of the rear is "off", but there are shims that can be purchased/installed which may help with adjustment.
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    This document describes a bunch of things to look at for pulling to one side.

    This one gives an idea what's involved in adjusting tie rods to center the steering wheel if the steering is otherwise ok.

    The later one is an older document; somebody might have posted an updated version. If that happened, it was probably Elektroingenieur.

    Does every Gen 2 have a steering angle sensor? I'm not sure they all do.

    Because the shaft is splined, as you've noticed, it isn't possible to put the wheel on with infinite adjustment (or, it is, but only if you ruin the splines, which is not good).

    The splines are fine enough that usually you can get the wheel on "pretty close" on one side of centered, or "slightly less close" on the other side of centered.

    The tie rod adjustment is really only for folks so obsessive that "pretty close" isn't close enough.

    If it can be centered enough to satisfy you and the tie rod end lengths are within 1.5 mm of each other, that's success.

    If it takes more than 1.5 mm of difference in tie rod lengths to center the wheel where you want it, it follows there is some other kind of misalignment going on (or the wheel's on the wrong spline).
     
  8. Prius92

    Prius92 Member

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    UPDATE:

    Got the car back from Toyota yesterday "all good".

    The wheel was centered perfectly for about 1-2 miles. After driving 10 miles, the wheel became off 10 degrees to the left.

    I've never seen a car "lose alignment", and this is the FOURTH TIME it has happened.

    Jacked the car up, wiggled the wheels and no free play in the tie rods, ball joints or struts.

    I did some more road testing and noticed something...

    There is more response to the steering on the right side than the left. What I mean is..if you drive the car straight and wiggle the wheel back and forth a good 2", the car moves much more doing this center to right than center to left.

    As a matter of fact, I can wiggle the wheel a solid half inch to the left and the car barely moves. Doing this from the center to the right would almost put the car into a ditch.

    It's almost as if the steering has a "dead spot" in it.

    So now I'm wondering if maybe the rack and pinion has a worn spot in it?

    I'm also going to file a complaint with Toyota corporate. Because they first blamed my tires, then my rear axle, and now it is my brakes. I just had all of them checked at Goodyear and they are fine. I just don't think my local dealer knows Wth they are doing.
     
  9. Prius92

    Prius92 Member

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    Good year re-checked the alignment and found the brake pads were hanging up a bit in the calipers.

    Not sure if this is causing it or not. But the alignment is now dead on, steering wheel still a bit off center.

    My only conclusion is that is was wrecked before purchase and it affects the thrust angle of the car. The steering shafts, rack and pinion, tie rods, control arms, etc were all checked and were fine.
     
  10. cthindi

    cthindi Member

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    I had this experience about 8 years back. I came across had a rock on the highway about one foot is size and had no way of avoiding it. It hit the crossmember near the point where it supports the wheel and transmission housing which got cracked. As a result of that the steering wheel position changed by about 20 degree to the right.
     
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  11. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    No that's still not right.

    And brake pads in the caliper causing the wheel to be off that much? Wow that's silly.

    And also earlier post you said it was ok then later on the steering wheel became crooked again? Something really bad and scary is going on. I don't think i would drive that car till you find out what.

    Look at ttou68's post #4 above Toyota's steering wheel recall post. Its a steering shaft replacement. It could be loose. There's another poster on here right now fuming that he lost steering because the bolts that hold it came loose.

    I bet you lost the clock spring circuit board in the steering wheel too with all this loose wheel shenanigans.. Does the steering wheel volume control work?

    Lastly go online and join toyota's owners forum.

    http://www.toyota.com/owners

    Enter the cars vin found on your insurance card and join. It will show every instance the car has seen an authorized toyota dealer service center. Maybe you'll see some cryptic messages there.
     
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  12. Prius92

    Prius92 Member

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    Well I pulled the records and the car has been aligned several times before I got it.Four times to be exact.

    I know about the steering recall. There are no open recalls on the car and the shaft is not one of the recalled type.

    Here is some other odd things upon checking the service records....

    1. The CV axle was replaced a year before I purchased the car last fall and a new one was installed at Toyota per records.

    However when I took it to Toyota for inspection before I purchased it, the axle was already worn 1 year later at only 15,000 miles. The service report from my local dealership states it was a non-oem axle, yet the prior dealership states they installed an OEM one, it even lists the part number.

    How the hell can a new CV axle, regardless if it's an aftermarket, fail in only 15,000 miles?

    2. The car has been aligned several times, but here is something I noticed.

    TIRES ROTATED TO MAKE CAR PULL IN OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

    Could I have a bent rim? Would that make the car pull? I did notice the last time they rotated tires, it did change the direction, I honestly forgot all about it. But the car doesn't pull going straight at all, but the wheel is still crooked.


    Either the wheels are messed up or the car was rear ended at some point and it threw off the thrust angle.

    It also looks like both water pumps and both front hubs were replaced 5 years ago.
     
  13. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    You might try moving the front wheels to the rear, and see if the problem follows or goes away.

    On a side note, alignments sound like they cost much less in Iowa.
     
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  14. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Very easy to bend a G2 15 inch mag. Mine had 3 bent wheels one tire shop missed it another found it in 2 minutes. Easy and best wheel tester is hang the tire on the rear axle and spin it. You can clearly see any run out.

    After market suspension stuff sucks these days its all China. Failure at 15,000 does not shock me at all.
     
  15. Sonic_TH

    Sonic_TH Active Member

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    Same thing is happening to me right now in my 2012 Prius C, replaced both control arms, then went to get it aligned, steering wheel looks like the picture you shared, got it aligned again next day after that, steering wheel still looks like in the picture but a little bit less, the car drives straight but it is quite annoying to drive in a straight road with the steering wheel not straight.
     
  16. Danno5060

    Danno5060 Member

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    Check the wheel bearing, ball joint, and tie rods for excess play. Check the tires for uneven wear (maybe swap them between the left and right to see if it starts pulling the other way).

    I had a bad wheel bearing, which caused a slight cupping of one of my tires. It didn't make noise like bad wheel bearings normally do. The cupping was so slight, that I never even noticed it, but it was enough to affect the steering wheel center.
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Check the things suggested in the Toyota documents linked in #7.
     
  18. Kenny94945

    Kenny94945 Active Member

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    If I understand, OP's last alignment had a perfectly centered steering wheel and after 10 miles of driving the steering wheel "offset" (from the photos) changed a good 10 degrees).

    Interesting.

    Checking the Toyota documents as Chapman etal suggested is where I would start.

    FWIW
    It makes me think that something is shifting or a steering system gear is skipping a tooth.
    Tie rods may be the easiest to inspect.
    I don't think a bent wheel is the issue, but a tire rotation may be a good diagnostic step.
    A-arm bushings could be suspect with a visual and prybar test a good step.
    Witness marks on the shock mounting areas (underhood too) can also be easily checked.
    Wheel bearings I am not so sure as the alignment steering wheel was centered for "x" miles, yet checking these and ball joints etal is a good step.
    Lastly, typically toe/ centered steering wheel is made with tie rod adjustments.
    The bad news is this car has had alignment issues for a long time.
    So it may not be any of the above.
    That leads to my gear tooth theory, which may not be so easy to check.
    Something inside the steering rack, or something, as mentioned, in the steering shaft.

    Sadly, no one had easily found the issue and chasing this issue may add up labor hours.
    I am unsure of your local labor rates, your car is a 2008.

    FWIW you could DIY centering the steering wheel by equal adjustment of both (many u-tube videos) front tie rods, but will the centering hold? And, I am unsure about your Prius, many cars require an electronic tool to present the steering shaft to a centered position before beginning alignment adjustments.

    I'll make a final comment that the Toyota dealer may not be your best option, seek out a "pure" suspension shop.

    Let us know your findings and good luck.