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Question: why shouldn't I buy this high mileage gen 2?

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by Tom Ato, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. Tom Ato

    Tom Ato New Member

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    Hi all!

    I'm in the market for a car (SO needs a vehicle in the next few months; I'll take the "new" car and she gets our current one), and I need your help in showing me how I'm being naive with my decision making.

    See, I'm looking at high mileage gen 2 models in the ~$3-4k range.

    Specifically, I found a 2006 on Craigslist that has 218k miles with a supposedly rebuilt hybrid battery listed at $3350. The current owner has had it for about a year without driving it much (apparently it was for his son but that fell through and so it is extra). Supposedly the previous owner had gotten the hybrid battery rebuilt recently (so probably ~2 years ago) along with replacing the 12v battery, but there current owner didn't get any service records with the car, so that isn't provable.

    I ran the VIN through the Toyota owner's website and it looks like it was regularly dealer-serviced until sometime in 2014, but I haven't paid for Carfax yet to see if there is any other record of service.

    I've looked through a lot of posts where other newbies like me ask about buying a 200k+ mile car, and generally the consensus is that they should NOT buy the car. Usually the reasoning is that they are not mechanically inclined and buying at the top of their budget, so the possibility of $2-3k high-cost repairs would push them out of their budget vs a simpler car like a Corolla.
    The difference for me is that I'm not afraid of most DIY repairs and fixes, including work on the hybrid battery. I will gladly repair my own stuff to learn how it works while keeping costs down. Additionally, $3-4k is not maxing my budget, I just don't want to spend a lot on a newer car if the older one is perfectly fine. I wouldn't go broke if I had to make an expensive repair, so it isn't as much an issue of direct financial burden as it is a general cost-benefit analysis (and ownership headaches) of owning an old, high mileage car.

    I guess I have two main questions/thoughts:

    1. Even if there is no way to truly verify that the hybrid battery is relatively new/good, would running the Dr. Prius app tests during a test drive give a decent indication of the battery health, or is that not a reliable enough measure?

    2. I've always wanted a hybrid (well, full electric but I'll wait awhile on that...), and the Prius I found is a package 8 which has all the bells and whistles from 2006. I'm sure that is influencing my opinion more than it should. What am I missing? Why shouldn't I buy a high mileage gen 2 Prius?
     
  2. Tom Ato

    Tom Ato New Member

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    Also, to clarify (I can't find the edit button, maybe because the post is waiting on moderator approval)
    While I am up for doing DIY work to keep a car going hence looking at the higher mileage, that doesn't mean I'm actually trying to give myself a bunch of work. I understand that older, higher mileage vehicles have more issues, I just don't have the experience to estimate how much a car of this age would give me problems over the next few years.
     
  3. Greenteapri

    Greenteapri Active Member

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    Hello and welcome!

    You will have problems with your Prius. It really doesn't matter what I say because from your monologue, it seems your mind is made up.

    My gf has a 2005. In her first year of ownership, another $4k and serious time went into her car; which was on top of the $5k that she spent buying it. It was the nicest of all the Pri's we test drove. By my standards, I think she needs another $2k worth of work but she wants a newer one. That will be a problem for the next owner.

    $11k for a car that's only worth $5k (on a good day).
     
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  4. Tom Ato

    Tom Ato New Member

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    Thank you, I suppose I kind of did monologue a bit much for a first post :whistle:
    I guess I'm posting because while my heart likes the car, my mind knows it might not be the right choice so I'm hoping to get some feedback to help convince me NOT to buy it, if that makes sense
     
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  5. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    In my opinion, that old of a Prius will cost you money in repairs. You have to understand that many of the components that will go bad on it will be expensive to replace due to the age of the car. It is a Hybrid and not a regular car, where parts are a dime a dozen. If you want a Hybrid, I would try to save up for a 2015 or later model. More parts are available, less chance of needed costly repairs in the near future, etc. Just my opinion, and I clarify, my opinion.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    don't buy a hybrid until you can afford one. old high ile hybrids are for diy geeks. it's a computer on wheels
     
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  7. Tom Ato

    Tom Ato New Member

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    That makes sense. I suppose I should keep looking around at what price range I want to end up in vs available features...I don't want to end up with a bunch of car trouble a year from now.
     
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  8. Greenteapri

    Greenteapri Active Member

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    I understand exactly what you are saying. Everytime I ride in or drive her gen2, I am amazed at the build quality of a fifteen year old car. :eek: But, it's a fifteen year old high-tech car! o_O

    I convinced my sister's husband to purchase a 2015 recently. He's a youth pastor with another baby on the way so money is a bit tight. It took about three months of research, saving and convincing for them to find a low mileage 2015 in their budget. They did it and so can you. (y)

    Oh yeah, my gf is saving up for a 2015, too. Cash is king right now. Hot deals will be made in 2020. Especially since gas is so cheap. Happy hunting!
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you probably need about 10k to get a hybrid that isn't likely to give you trouble. a non hybrid is likely to be less
     
    #9 bisco, Jun 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  10. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    @Tom Ato wrote...

    What am I missing? Why shouldn't I buy a high mileage gen 2 Prius?


    Because I can give you a MUCH better deal?
     
  11. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Don't buy a "used up" hybrid without either a large repair fund available or the necessary DIY skills and knowledge.
     
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  12. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Well as you admit, you've already read existing posts covering the similar question, and you seem willing to accept the major reasons NOT buying one create.
    So I think you are going into it Eyes Wide Open. I'm not going to repeat what you have already read.
    If you go in knowing considerable repair and maintenance and further investment may be necessary and are willing to accept those parameters I'm going to say....go right ahead buy it.

    As far as the Dr. Prius App?
    I don't have personal experience using it. But it is a tool for gaining at least some information. I would personally look at any information it gives you about the HV battery health as a "electronic" 2nd or 3rd opinion, but not anything I would take as definitive as representing undeniable battery health. It only tells you what it evaluates at the time of the test.

    But what worries me? Is I think you have to go into the deal, not really caring about HV health. It's rebuilt at best. I think you have to go in, again prepared for the worst.
    If you are worried enough or concerned enough to even want to use the Dr. Prius App, what do you want?
    I would go in, assuming the HV battery will need replacement. If you get X number of miles, or years great. But whether the Dr. Prius App represented a high percentage of efficiency or warned of approaching failure, I wouldn't buy the vehicle without the attitude the it's very possible HV battery "pain" is coming.
     
  13. davecook89t

    davecook89t Senior Member

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    That might be worth a follow-up. If you settled on getting a Gen 2, and are willing to drive outside of your immediate area, you probably couldn't do better. Jim knows these cars like no one else and could make a trip down to SC worthwhile, assuming he is serious.

    In the upper Midwest, I would be concerned about rust damage on a 14 year old car, in addition to the fact that it has a battery that we would consider suspect. Have you driven the car you are interested in and others like it? If you have a few months to decide, I would think you should take your time.

    I became intrigued with the Gen 2 Prius when my wife and I were looking for our daughter's first car about 5 years ago. She was about to graduate with a degree in Electrical Engineering, so I thought this type of vehicle would be a perfect fit for her. I wanted her to have some skin in the game, so I thought she should be willing to pay $3 to $4,000 out of the total $6 to $8,000 that I thought it would take to get a fairly reliable car. Well, it turned out she was not willing to pay anything, knowing her mother would eventually cave and give her as much money as she asked for (within reason) to buy a car. She and her boyfriend went car shopping, and I expected she would come back with something like an older Mini Cooper or Mazda Miata, but to my surprise, they picked out a plain Nissan Sentra with about 100k miles for a little more $4k I believe. With what they paid and for that brand of car, I did not expect much, even though I was relieved they didn't buy a guaranteed money pit like a Mini Cooper. I can now say assuredly that they made a better choice than I would have, although with purchases like these luck always plays a large role. In her 5 years of ownership, the car has needed one wheel bearing, a new battery and tires. She does know enough to take it in for an oil change every 5k miles or so, but other than that, I don't think she ever opens the hood, and I don't think her interest in learning about cars would have been any different even if it were a hybrid or a full electric.

    In the meantime, I found I couldn't quench my thirst for a different driving experience with anything else, after having test driven the Gen 2 I had picked out for our daughter. About a year later, I needed a car to get around Vancouver for the month or so I would be there, so I took a total leap of faith on a 2007 Touring that I found on Craigslist in that area. According to the Toyota owners website, the car is a Package 6 (the highest available for that year, I believe), but had 211k miles, although you would never know it by its condition. 75k miles later it is still going strong, with no major repairs, but it does burn a little oil, so I know it would never be suitable for someone like my daughter who is not willing to develop a relationship with the car she drives. Like I said, luck always plays a role.
     
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  14. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

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    Can you run the app and post your results here before buying the vehicle? There are two tests. One shows simply whether the battery is functioning normally and the other shows estimated reserve which is an estimation of how long the battery may last. It would also show any fault codes.

    Regardless of what Dr. Prius shows, you should assume that the battery is about to fail. Most "refurbished" hybrid batteries don't last 2 years, so this one is on borrowed time. If you buy it you need a plan on what you will do when (not if) the battery fails. One option, if the rest of the vehicle seems to be in good shape, would be for you to not wait for it to fail and buy a $1600 kit to put in all new cells from newpriusbatteries.com (or have a plan to do so when failure happens).
     
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  15. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Overthinking it. You'll get much more and better data by comparing the age of the battery pack to today's date.

    Lots of people scoot right past this because it's simple and not nearly as sexy as an app that talks to the ECU, but there you have it.

    A "rebuilt" prius battery is just one that has had its more symptomatic modules swapped for ones that were less symptomatic. They're still all old, and while there is no hard age limit 14 years is really up there.

    I think you can still get one and enjoy it, but be realistic. Hybrid go eventually also means hybrid fail. You're going to have old car problems, electric car problems, gas car problems and high mileage car problems all between the same two license plates. If you acknowledge this and go in with your eyes open, you'll do okay.

    Good luck!
     
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  16. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Good advice has been given in the other post. I sold a 2008 Prius last may. We had bought it new in 2008 and really liked the car. It had 150,000 miles on it and was still getting close to 50 mpg.

    However in the last few years of ownership I had to replace the Brake Actuator- $2,300 for part, front drivers side wheel bearing and hub- $230 for parts and machine shop work and alignment. Replace rear shocks and struts. I did all the work myself and saved the labor which probably would have approached another $3000.

    After doing all the above I still had a 13 year old vehicle that had 150,000 miles on it.

    Thinking it through for us we decided to trade the Prius in even though it was running fine at that point. We needed a rock solid reliable car for our family and while the Prius served us very well it was time to move on.

    I hope things work out for you but as a few other said go into this with your eyes wide open and a good amount of money in your checking account for future repair knowing you have a vehicle rapidly approaching 20 years old that in some instances requires considerably technical expertise to repair and keep on the road.

    On the up side a Prius can be very economical to drive as far as fuel cost are concerned.
     
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  17. Salvage09

    Salvage09 Junior Member

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    I have a 2009 I bought as repaired salvage in LA, 2012. Cost about 1/2-2/3 what a non wreck would have cost. About 2 days after I bought it, it lit up the big red triangle after I bought gas 100 miles from home at 8 pm and wouldn't start. I frantically called the seller, who recommended I detach the 12v battery cable, wait 30 seconds and reattach. Except for seeming a little confused, the car ran fine after that.

    For a few days. I had a code reader, and a few days later, it lit up 'check engine' and it had all sorts of wacky codes, from like 4 different systems. I came here, and someone suggested I check the 12v voltage which was ?10.8 (very very low) I replaced the 12v and all was well.

    It overheated in the desert, worked ok after cooling off, but careful observation showed that while running, the inverter coolant reservoir was perfectly smooth instead of w little ripples it gets when coolant is circulating. The inverter coolant pump is in the front left quadrant where it had been hit, and the wires broke somehow. Once that was fixed, it's run fine for 8 years with no more than regular maintenance, and it's a GREAT car.

    We've put about 10k/year on it.

    In snow country, I would worry about rust damage. My daughter bought a 12 yo car in the Adirondacks, and it turned out the frame was almost rusted through.

    I'd suggest you have a mechanic check it out, but if the above story doesn't have you running for the hills, it could work out. However, I'd suggest you look around for a salvage vehicle in the South, either Fl or Georgia, SC etc., then drive it back north.

    Google Salvage Prius and see what you find.

    YMMV , but considering more options will usually get you a better decision than "this car or none."
     
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  18. Tom Ato

    Tom Ato New Member

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    That makes sense. I guess I was just hoping for a magical solution :D but obviously an app can't give that, and you're right, the fact that I was asking about it probably put up a few flags immediately.
     
  19. Tom Ato

    Tom Ato New Member

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    Wow! Thanks everyone for so many thoughts and experiences. I wasn't expecting so much help figuring this out.

    Yeah, we always have to carefully check for rust when buying used cars around here ;) The car I learned to drive on was a 1987 Volvo station wagon which had so much rust on the frame that my dad repaired the floor with some roofing shingles to stop water from splashing your feet when driving through puddles :D I eventually stopped driving it after a mechanic refused to put it on the vehicle lift for fear that the entire frame would buckle...

    Fortunately I'm not in a rush to buy a car. I'm going to poke around for the next few months and also solidify what I actually want from a car before making a decision.
    Thanks everyone for helping me not rush into the first car I found without really considering my options :)
     
    #19 Tom Ato, Jun 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
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  20. Lilflamio

    Lilflamio New Member

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    Interesting. I just bought a used 2011 Prius at 163k miles and honestly, it doesn't have any problems beside needing new front tires, just took it to a mechanic to see how it was. Am I in for trouble?
     
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