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Featured Rav4 Prime vs Tesla?

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by docboy, Jun 7, 2020.

  1. docboy

    docboy Junior Member

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    Not sure if this thread is appropriate here; mods delete or move as necessary. Random EV musings...

    Now that Toyota has released pricing and specs on its upcoming Rav4 Prime, considering a fully loaded Rav4 Prime is ~$47k in the US, with initial fed tax credits of ~$7500 bringing the price down to ~$40k, I find myself cross shopping a Tesla (which has no more fed tax credits remaining) to replace my gas guzzling Lexus LX570.

    A new standard range RWD Model 3 is $38k. Long range AWD Model 3 is $47k.

    And looking at Tesla website for used Teslas in Northern Cal: a used 2015 Model S at ~40k miles with AWD is ~$40k. A used 2016 Model X is ~$53k. A new LR Model Y is $53k.

    Which is the more compelling long term buy? Toyota is more reliable, but only ~43 miles on electricity and still has the moving parts/maintenance of an ICE to deal with. Tesla's have 250-320 range and a super charger network, but has random build issues, and long road trips require planning around charging stations.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    depends on your wants and needs. the phev is more flexible for any situation, while a tesla offers complete tree hugger satisfaction and much more tech.

    if i were in the market, it would be a model y. for mrs b, the rav would be perfect.
     
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  3. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    I’d agree with @bisco. In addition if you’re towing anything less than 3,500 lbs for a long range, RAV4 Prime. If you’re towing anything short range, Model Y or X (or anything big, >3500lbs, then X). You’re coming from an LX, so from a standpoint of entry and exit, the RAV4 Prime will be more comfortable and familiar with it’s ground clearance. If looking at resale value down the road, then any Tesla, but you’d have to worry about initial build quality like paint on the Model 3. You’re coming from an LX so noise levels, again a Tesla, unless you’re talking about total ride quality like NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness). Remember these RAV4 Primes are coming in Toyota’s “Sporty” trims SE and XSE so they may seem a bit more untamed. But I’m with @bisco, my accountant Mrs D would prefer the RAV4 Prime.


    iPad ? Pro
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Define your requirements:
    • Mandatory - must have based on past and planned usage.
    • Optional - those that can be assigned a value.
    Put it in a spreadsheet and have at least three alternates. This will settle the issue better than anyone else speculation.

    If you have questions about specs, share the questions and those of us with direct experience can address them. For example, I have a ‘$38 k’ Tesla Model 3 and a lot of benchmark data.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

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    Rav4. Almost all of the benefits. Almost none of the downsides.
     
  6. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Definitely depends upon wants and needs. I personally can't go back to any ICE after driving a Tesla for a year and a half. So the Model Y will be our next vehicle purchase (chance it could be the CyberTruck instead). But for my parents and other people that have only owned ICE vehicles their whole lives and aren't a huge fan of change, the RAV Prime makes a little more sense. Hoping they will go with that for their next purchase.
     
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  7. docboy

    docboy Junior Member

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  8. docboy

    docboy Junior Member

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    At this point for me, I'm looking at costs of ownership as a main factor. My LX is a 2009 and has 115k miles. Maintenance and repairs costs, and time spent on the repairs is a big factor, in addition to the 13-15mpg I'm getting on my daily 80 mile commute. Don't really want a 2nd vehicle due to additional insurance and maintenance costs, been there and done that with a p-car.

    What would be useful is if there is a site or spreadsheet that compares annual costs of ownership of the LX vs Model 3 AWD vs Model Y vs Model X vs Rav4 Prime. Since the Rav4 Prime is an unknown in terms of figures, the Prius Prime I suspect may have similar running costs of the Rav4 Prime. Think I find a site somewhere before, I just need to hunt for it.
     
  9. docboy

    docboy Junior Member

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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if coo is yourmain concern, the most difficult part is determining gasoline costs over your expected oenership lifetime.
    electric is fairly steady in comparison.

    right now, gas istempting. but isn't that always the way evil works?:sneaky:
     
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  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    It depends on your situation (sorry for the cliche start to the response)

    • What is your commute length? Even if the one-way trip uses up the entire charge, you're dropping your consumption by half. Of course if you can make it round trip, that's even better
    • Note that 42 miles will range from 32ish for a typical PNW winter to 50...52 miles in the summer (or at least a normal day.. not a heat wave). Of course if it snows and you're pushing that wet snow around, it'll drop considerably.

    RAV4 Prime
    Pros:
    • Toyota reliability - you know the powertrain will last
    • Warranty - hybrid battery for all 2020 and newer models extended to 10 years/150,000 miles. I believe the rest of the hybrid components (inverter, converter, cables etc) are still 8 years/100,000 miles
    • Familiarity (your previous car is an LX... it's a Toyota vehicle so there's familiarity with the controls and layout and quirks)
    • Spare tyre (if that matters)
    • Ability to use gasoline when needed (power outage, forgot to charge, road trips)
    • Flexibility to use charging stations (don't have to charge if the stations are full or if it costs more than it does to charge at home or gasoline costs)
    • Maintenance is similar to a regular Toyota hybrid - You're still paying for labour so the only maintenance stuff you save is actual product like engine oil or engine coolant (but that's not until 100,000 miles for the first change of "super long life" engine coolant)
    • Higher ground clearance for wet snow
    • Flexible cargo area for hauling things (luggage, Home Depot etc)
    Cons:
    • Still has a gas engine
    • Gateway drug to EV ownership - could possibly make you wanting more than 42 miles of EV range lol
    • Doesn't handle as well as a sedan

    Model 3
    Pros:
    • It's a Tesla - brand name cache for advanced technology
    • It's a full EV - no more engine noise, rumbling or gas station visits
    • Tesla's supercharger network - yes it can be busy but it really makes road trips viable in an EV (and you have the option to buy a CHADeMO adapter although I guess non-Tesla EV owners might be annoyed you decide to use their DCFCs rather than the Superchargers)
    • There are a growing number of destination chargers (so these are Tesla home chargers that charge at up to 10kW at hotels, shopping mall garages etc) so you still can get a faster charge than your typical 6.6kW Level 2 charger that other EVs use
    • They're fast - SR+ gets to 60 around 5.6 secs (I thought a software update brought that closer to 5.0sec? Can a TM3 owner verify) and the LR AWD is around 4.6. (and the P3 is 3.4). The RAV4 Prime does it in 5.8 secs so it can hold its own
    • They're decently spacious - Good headroom and legroom and a really good pass-through when you fold down the rear seats compared to other sedans
    • Advanced driver assist systems with better lane keeping systems than others - and of course traffic sign recognition and auto start/stop for the cruise control system (Toyota's system requires you to tap the accelerator or push "RES" on the CC stalk to get the car to move again)
    • The "it's constantly updating and improving" aspects of Tesla's software
    • The range estimate is very accurate and the navigation software (if equipped) will give you an accurate range remaining at your destination and updates in real time - you can see a graph of energy use and range left at different average times (past 5 minutes, past 15 minutes, past 30 minutes) so range anxiety is not an issue.
    • Better handling - it's a sedan vs. the RAV4's SUV stance
    Cons:
    • The hardware is typically set in stone like any other car so while other cars usually change every few years (like a midlife update), your car can differ from the car built one month before and one month after so it can be hard to know what improvements were done to your car.
    • Tesla doesn't tend to update their previous cars - e.g. any of the advancements found on the Model Y isn't applied to the S, X or 3 for some reason so the S is essentially the same from 2012 but with improvements to the software and some of the electronics (like the MCU... don't buy early build Model Ses....google MCU)
    • Potentially expensive windshield repair cost (it's half of your panoramic roof so it's a large piece of glass... make sure you stay back from any 18-wheeler or vehicles without mudguards)
    • You are being tracked everywhere (I mean.. your car IS connected to Tesla's server for the purposes of constantly updating AutoPilot and their FSD software, as well as Tesla Supercharger network use... it's why everything works so seamlessly). Now, Toyota does track as well via Entune 3.0 but you can opt out by not using their services. But your Toyota's software does still keep a log of excessive accelerator and brake pedal application but it's only accessible via techstream software (and I guess only if you request to see it)

    If you were to get a Model 3, I would push for the LR for a few reasons

    • Longer range means more flexibility in road trip planning (as well as greater buffer if you find a charging station full and need to go to the next one)
    • The LR gets the 10kW charger while the SR+ gets a 7kW charger... won't make a difference at home unless you can supply 3-phase 203V at 50A at home but it can make a difference at destination chargers (assuming again it can supply 10kW)
    • I've seen TM3s used as family vehicles even with car seats (if you're in that stage of life). Funny how people can live with sedans, eh?

    So there's not a lot of cons for the Model 3 and most are just nitpicking.

    Yeah but with 42 miles of AER, gas consumption isn't going to be high.
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    depends on your driving habits, but if that's the case, it's a no brainer.
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I traded in our 2017 Prius Prime, $18,300, for our 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3. Keep it in good shape and low miles and you'll be good to go.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Tesla doesn't even sell *any* model with a HUD, which is a shame. The Rav4 has a way, way better dash, a HUD option, and two independent sources of energy. I'd say the Rav4 has "more tech".

    I can't see comparing the Rav4 to a Model 3. I'd compare a Prius Prime to a Model 3 and a Rav4 Prime to a Model Y.
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there's probably a good reason for no hud.

    more tech is just an opinion.

    i didn't compare it, the o/p asked a question, and i answered it to the best of my ability, without diverging into preconceived notions and personal opinions like some here constantly do.
     
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  16. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Can't think of one.
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    me neither
     
  18. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I took a pic during our first gas fill up of our then brand new "gas guzzler" Gen5 Subie Outback and in the background the gas price was $1.86/gal. That was Feb. 2015; six years later it's $1.55

    Yup.

    Spec'd out to my needs, the Model Y has always been a $60k vehicle (including TT&L, destination, etc). Add in a lack of support (nearest service center is nearly a 400 mile R/T away), ? reliability, and the supercharger network not built out yet in the rural areas nor conveniently located on our long established (family) trips here in Texas (nor are other networks) and the list of con's outweighs the pro's. ATM

    YMMV
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm old enough to know that gas prices move in two different directions, and i don't believe that will change.
    but i was also prepared for a pandemic, so maybe i have some ocd
     
  20. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    The beauty of dual-fuels comes to mind. My wife is OCD and likes the feeling of plugging in when returning home on every trip.

    BEV's are going to get there; major transformations take time.