Solar Panels!

Three months of lost production?

Out here I don't believe that very many waited for the official blessing. Once it is tested and works, then just put it into operation while the approvals get finished up.

As a DIY installer, I had it ready and did the live confirmation test after business hours, too late in the day to get in the next day's L&I electrical permit office inspection queue. So it was inspected the day after that. But I never shut down from that initial test connection, just left it operating and producing. The L&I inspector wasn't bothered that it was already running when he arrived. Though he required a minor grounding improvement, it wasn't something requiring a disconnect or shutdown.

It was three weeks until the utility tech came out to shut it down, remove my personal energy meter, do their own inspection (separate from L&I permit inspection), install their official production meter, and turn it back on. Again, no problem that I already had it running. The PV incentive program even had a separate first-year line item on the annual form for energy delivered in the interval from initial firing up until the utility installs its official meter.

There was no legal department delay, possibly thanks to an already long running and thriving local PV program that had already settled all those issues.

 

Earlier I misunderstood, and thought that you had finally been able to go Grid Tie. Major bummer, for both you and national energy policy, that you cannot do so yet.

Is the Legal dept. holdup with the city, or the utility, or with some other entity? There is certainly no shortage of examples of other places that have already resolved this matter, that they could look to for advice and templates.

You have already lost the first half of prime production season this year. It would be an environmental crime to lose the second half too. At least I was able to go the "forgiveness is easier than permission" route, and it turned out that no one here even cared. The production incentive program even had a space to enter in a best estimate of how much was produced during that period.

 

Every state is different. A few years ago our local county co-op began to integrate solar to its membership. When the program was finally instituted the co-op was only going to credit 2 cents per kilowatt-hour for the excess-power generated (when the going-rate was 13 cents). It's like a slap in the face to go to all that trouble just to have them low-ball their customers.

 

Beginning July1, I get no payment whatsoever for excess production, as this incentive program expires. But I still get net metering forever, or at least until the legislature changes the law. Net metering credit for excess lasts a year before it reverts as a free gift to the utility.

I do produce a bit of excess now, originally slightly over 1000 kWh/year but closer to half that now as we get lazier about conservation, especially in using the clothes drier when the outside clothesline will do. But I'm looking towards a plug-in car to soak up that excess, possibly justifying a bit more system expansion too.

Folks who installed somewhat later and landed on a subsequent program, get (smaller) incentive payments for a few years more. But that program hit its participation cap very quickly, closing long before the legal deadline.

 

Most solar panel threads go to the environmental section. Just stumbled on this one by mistake. Curious. If you're producing 6kw AC (over any couple of hours during long June months) would it be safe to assume your panels are somewhere in the neighborhood of an 8KW DC rating? Our panels in.theory are 9kw DC, but the varying angles of the roof Gables coupled with all the other variables from cloudy days, to high heat days which decrease efficiency, we typically will get around 6.7kw AC - for maybe 3 or 4 hours. Sure, on rare occasions we might actually output over 8KW AC ... but it's only for very short bursts, typically when the sun comes out from behind clouds & the panels have not yet heated up.
In any event, congratulations on the panels!
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I'd hunt down a set of used EV cells and reconfigure to what ever voltage you inverter is set up for and screw the utility mob. Just use the utility as a back up if you ever need it and go semi off grid, if you haven't needed to use the grid back up over a12 mth period, get the grid disconnected.
I'm a tad bias though, that is what I do for a living in Australia, for RVs and off grid houses and those that want to be independent of the grid.

T1 Terry

 

???

I don't understand what would be wrong with the new EV cells he already has.

Lacking batteries, he'll need the grid whenever the sun is down. At these latitudes, that is every night.

 

I'm a little bit confused. Is the installed system a grid-tie, or a battery backup? I don't know if solar panel's intended for grid-tie are as easily converted.

 

Nice setup. I've thought about doing a similar solar upgrade to our home.

If you didn't mind I was wondering what motivated your family to install the panels?
Did you do a return on investment on this project?
How satisfied has your family been with the results?
Advice for anyone considering doing this upgrade to their home?

I realize return on investment can be a challenging question and that projects don't always have to have a positive financial result. I grow a large garden and if someone asked me the cost of my garden compared to just going to Kroger and buying the groceries the garden may not make good monetary sense!

 

Kroger left our area a decade go.

 

When energy efficiency is the goal, I try to push people away from electric instant-on, because it simply can't save very much.

Compared to proper EnergyStar storage tanks, instant-on can't save even 10% in ordinary household usage. (Exceptions include very low usage households, and irregularly occupied dwelling such as weekend and vacation places.) When they save more, it is because the comparison is to an old lossy system that doesn't meet EnergyStar standards.

When climate change remediation needs an 80% reduction in carbon emissions by year 2050, electric instant-on water heaters just can't get there, no way, no how.

Heat pump water heaters (HPWH) can easily reduce energy use by 60-70% today in most climates, and are still improving. Warm Southern climates (from a North hemisphere-centric viewpoint) reach higher savings, compared to my cooler climate. And when combined with air cooling needs in hot climates, HPWHs can meet that 80% reduction goal today!

Gas instant-on is a different animal, so doesn't fit this comparison.

Direct solar hot water can save even more energy, in the right climate zones. But in my climate zone and situation, it would have been much more expensive, and still not provide all my needed hot water in winter. A combination of HPHW with solar PV is actually cheaper here, and does cover all the hot water needs.

https://www.energystar.gov/sites/default/files/asset/document/HPWHs_FactSheet_021518.pdf
Heat Pump Water Heaters | Department of Energy
How it Works — Heat Pump Water Heaters (HPWHs) | Products | ENERGY STAR
Energy Efficient Heat Pump Water Heaters | ENERGY STAR

 

Different fuel, different goals, so my HPWH efficiency discussion doesn't apply to this situation. No way will a HPWH fit into a 7" space.

But I do want to promote them for the many situations where they do fit. Especially for existing electric hot water customers.

 

Do you think the utility provider would get the message if they kept loosing customers because they were not up to speed with solar inter-connection? Would you make enough out of selling power back to the utility provider to cover the cost of having the grid connected? Over here in Australia, they pay so little for grid fee yet charge heaps just to be connected to the grid, it barely pays the connection fee. Then the fact they pay any where 6 cents and 15 cents per kWh for feed in but 42cents to buy it back out, grid tie solar over here is just about a total loss, unless of course you can rearrange the loads to only run when the solar is providing the energy rather than the grid.

T1 Terry