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Gas Pump does not want to pump gas and spills out gas

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by ToyotaGal, Jun 8, 2020.

  1. ToyotaGal

    ToyotaGal Member

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    does the fuel cut off valve come with the fuel neck? I already replaced that.
    Are the other valves you talk about sold separately? I can't find them on the toyota parts website. I know there is a valve in front of the gas tank. I think that is the canister valve.
     
  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Still struggling huh?

    If anything was wrong with the emissions system in your car it would throw a check engine type obd code light on the dash. Any lights on the dash?

    Forgot one other caveat do not ever let the car get below 2 pips. My wife does not let the car get below half a tank and has no issue does not even have to vent it.

    If you go below 2 pips that allows alot more volume in the tank for air/fumes to be pressurized which means you may have to wait alot longer to vent it. Takes much longer for the tank to relax. Much longer.

    As a test do not let the car get below 3 pips see if that helps or even half a tank.
     
    #22 edthefox5, Jun 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
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  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Judging by this diagram, (I'm going a little crosseyed but) I think the answer is no. It looks like callout 77201 is for the fuel neck all by its lonesome.

    [​IMG]

    Wouldn't get very much help from the diagram and the part catalog names here, without also having those photos from the training courses upthread. Matching up the positions from those photos with this diagram, I think the "refuel check valve" is called out as 77720H here, and the "fuel cutoff valve" is the one called out as 77420.

    That whoever put them in the catalog thought they were both called "fuel tank rollover valve" instead of what the training docs call them isn't a lot of help either.

    (By the way, it's easy to miss the "view more images" link on the Toyota parts site where it sometimes shows up under the illustration. In this case, you do have to click that to find these.)

    There is no sign of either valve having any kind of instrumentation such that the car's ECM would directly know if they weren't working right. The ECM programmers did their best to build in ways to detect some kinds of problem they foresaw to be common, but they didn't have magic. I would expect the training instructions on how these valves should be tested to be reliable information.
     
  4. prius_deep

    prius_deep Member

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    this may only apply to 4th gen; ...but don't let any ~collars~,and or hoods,etc... the gasoline hoses may have hit this switch
    prgas.jpg

    as that may close off the system and you'll have spilled gas if you try and add more gas.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Isn't that just the latch you're releasing when you pull the fill-door-open handle? That's what the one in my Gen 3 looks like.
     
  6. ToyotaGal

    ToyotaGal Member

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    The car passed emissions no problem 2 x. Once in May before I purchased it and then I had a week to get it reinspected after I purchased it.. No lights are on and it
     
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  7. ToyotaGal

    ToyotaGal Member

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    It takes awhile to go through gas so I can't tell if the problem is fixed right away.

    At this point maybe it is better to take it to the stealership for a proper diagnostic.
     
  8. ToyotaGal

    ToyotaGal Member

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    ok I called the local dealership and this is what I came up with for parts

    the canister close valve is the vaccum switch part # 77740
    Refuel check valve part of the fuel neck part 77720 ( this is what I replaced)
    Fuel cut off valve other part of the fuel neck part number 77420
     
  9. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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  10. ToyotaGal

    ToyotaGal Member

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    I ordered the valve that is at the top of the fuel neck.
    Yesterday I needed to fill up. I was in a strange area so I went to the nearest gas station. It was a full serve. I asked the attendant if I could pump. Hew said I know all about these cars. You have to put the pump upside down and pump slowly see I put it on the slowest setting.
    We were talking about the problem and then he started to top off. I said no you cant do that otherwise it spits up gas. He stopped and said I do this all day long. I said wait a few minutes before you take out the pump. He did. and no spillage. it took 9 gallons
    IT took awhile for the bars to register full.
     
    #30 ToyotaGal, Jul 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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  11. ToyotaGal

    ToyotaGal Member

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    Update. I just got the car back from mechanic. He put the new valve in. I was on 2 bars and went to the gas station. Let the air out, put the pump on slow, and it stopped at 6 gallons. I topped it off and when it stopped I saw a little gas in the neck. I waited for the air to clear and then pulled the pump out. No spillage. I pumped a total of 7.4 gallons with 2 bars.
     
  12. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    For the love of god stop topping it off.
     
  13. ToyotaGal

    ToyotaGal Member

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    hahaha

    The point of topping it off was to see if the problem was fixed
     
  14. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Sorry forgot to add an lol....

    There never was a problem to be fixed.
    If anything failed in the emissions system it would have thrown an obd code on the dash. Your dashboard is working right becasue that's another issue the g2 has a black dashboard. The emissions codes stay on don't blink.

    My g2 I have had for 13 years gases up no problem but still will not tolerate a top off.

    Fill up at 3 pips. Slow fill first click off hang it up.

    That iis all.
     
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  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Both of those things take a bit of a leap to say about somebody else's car that you have had no chance to diagnose.

    The confidence that there'll be a specific code for any ORVR malfunction is misplaced. You can study the system and easily see that most of those components have no sensors or instrumentation allowing the ECM to see what they're doing. You can search through the OBD codes in the repair manual and see that they exist to detect problems with the pressure sensor, purge flow rates, sticking of the VSV or leak checking pump, and of course detect leaks. Other components and issues aren't covered. You can read the technician instructions for troubleshooting the ORVR bits and see that they don't say the first thing about looking for related trouble codes, because there aren't any. On-board diagnostics are super helpful and can give you useful information about lots of problems, but they aren't an all-seeing magic eye that knows when anything is wrong with the car. There are still plenty of bits of the car where troubleshooting is done the old-fashioned way with tools and eyeballs.

    It is normal for the Prius tank to prefer to be filled at less than full pump speed. I learned pretty quickly in my Gen 1 (bladder tank like Gen 2) to put the auto nozzle on just the first click, never more, and then leave it alone while going up front to check the oil. Let it click off by itself, hang it back on the pump, done. Gauge'll read full, except maybe once in a blue moon with a flaky nozzle on a particular pump.

    If it's about that finicky, then sure, normal. If you're constantly trying to make up magic dances, stand on your head, hold the nozzle upside down, pull it part-way out, just to get small amounts of fuel to go in the tank? Not normal. There are troubleshooting procedures to solve that problem.

    It's worth noting that some of those magic dance ideas can give you an ORVR problem if you don't have one already. A main job of those ORVR plumbing bits is to make sure no liquid fuel gets into the canister, and make sure the pump nozzle clicks off before any will. Liquid fuel getting in the canister, or getting in those valves, will interfere with the airflow during a fillup. Fuel is going into the tank, so air/vapor has to go out. If it can't, the nozzle will trip early, and fuel may spurt out.

    Re-reading the troubleshooting steps in post #20 will show that one of the ways the fuel cutoff valve can get fuel-logged is from filling up with the nozzle not fully inserted. That can be like pouring fuel right in the opening that goes to the valve. If there wasn't a real problem before ... now there is.

    Habitually "topping off" can do the same thing.

    If any of these dances seem "necessary" to refueling the car, then there may very well be something to fix. Make sure the plumbing is clear, the canister and valves aren't sloshing with fuel, get it back to its normal slightly-finicky-but-manageable behavior where you can fill it up with the nozzle fully inserted, on the first click, no dances, no topping off, and then fill it up that way ... no dances, no topping off.
     
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  16. ToyotaGal

    ToyotaGal Member

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    prior to this it would not pump gas even on empty. The pump would shut off as soon as it started even on a slow fill. I could get a few gallons of gas in if I tipped the pump upside down. Changing the valve at the top of the fillerneck, allowed 7 gallons without a issue.
     
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  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Did you get to see the old valve, what condition it was in, or did the mechanic just keep it?
     
  18. ToyotaGal

    ToyotaGal Member

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    I did see it. The mechanic shook it and it made a noise (like a broken bulb) and then he shook the new one. same thing. The inside looks like it has a black rubber stopper in it. The outside was dirty. I am guessing that dirt got in the inside or something in the valve stopped working. I threw it away in the dumpster myself.
    Some dealerships, sell the parts at a discount off their website. I paid 33 dollars for the part. I buy most of the parts this way and then give them to my mechanic to put in. On my 05 sienna a few years back, it needed a catalytic converter. I got one for 300 from a toyota dealership in NC off ebay. It only took a half hour to put in and I was charged for labor.
     
  19. ToyotaGal

    ToyotaGal Member

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    Another update. I went back to the gas station to fill her up. I was on 2 bars. I put it on slow fill and the pump stopped at 6 gallons. I topped it off and it went off at another gallon. No spillage or sight of gas.

    I am confident to say the the problem is resolved.
     
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  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    congratulations!(y)