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2010 EGR Cleaning then cold engine shake

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by Michael Tomkins, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Michael Tomkins

    Michael Tomkins Junior Member

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    Hey guys. Hope you can help me figure this one out.
    2010 135,000mi. Last year I luckily ran across info here on an extended warrantee EGR valve fix. Engine shook on 2-3day cold starts and burnt oil. They replaced EGR valve and that is it. Engine slowed on the oil burning. Last week at 139,000 mi went in and pulled the plugs and did a piston soak as I cleaned EGR, EGR cooler and pipe, then replaced spark plugs, PCV valve and added Catch-Can, coolant and tranny fluid replacement. Had all kinds of flashing warnings on instrument panel when I started her up but eventually all evened out and only check engine light stayed on. It disappeared after a couple starts.
    Drove about 150 miles, runs real good. Let car sit for a day and engine shook bout 10 sec. on the cold start. Drove, runs good. Shut off engine and unplugged EGR and started up. Run good. Check engine light returned. Went to O'Reillys and they read P0403, P3190, P0102, and P0113 codes. All cleared but P0403 code. My guess is EGR valve but it is only 1 year old. I cleaned it what little it needed. It opened easy. On overnight cold start engine seems to shake a little before it clears but not as bad as a day or so of sitting. Any ideas? Thanks
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    intake manifold?
     
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Exactly. The last leg of the EGR circuit. Consider it like clearing the gutter for an entire block, then leaving a big pile of debris right at the lip of the storm drain. The intake manifold passage at port #1 (at the passenger end of the engine) is invariably the most clogged.
     
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  4. Michael Tomkins

    Michael Tomkins Junior Member

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    OMG didn't realize intake cleaning was so critical. Sure would have made replacing PCV valve easier if I'd a known. OK, I'll dig into it again but I don't understand why the cold start shaking after I cleaned everything else. It was not doing that before I cleaned the cooler and pipe. Appreciate your help guys. Thank you.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    EGR gasses enter the intake manifold in a large passageway, then branch down to roughly 1/4" diameter passages, one per intake port. You can see them, around 12 o'clock on each port. A skinny pipe cleaner style brush and some brake or carb cleaner is good for this. I used a brush designed for cleaning stainless steel drinking straws.
     
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  6. Michael Tomkins

    Michael Tomkins Junior Member

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    Truly appreciate the knowledge and advice, Leisk, Bisco, Grit, and Merkey. I'll get some cleaner and brushes, a gasket, and go to town. Unfortunately, the only place I have to work on it is my brother-in-law's bout 100 miles north so I'll head up there in a couple days. I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks again.
     
  7. Michael Tomkins

    Michael Tomkins Junior Member

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    If you read previous post you see that I replaced spark plugs, adding oil catch can, cleaned EGR system that had a new valve already, then after solid advice because of engine shake on start up, I went back and thoroughly cleaned intake manifold which was filthy. I might add here that a 12 guage and 22 caliber gun cleaning brushes work great for cleaning the manifold. My problem, car runs great and my mpg is up but the bugger still seems to want to stutter very briefly on start up. It is just the very first "hit" or two of the engine start. It isn't smooth, you can feel it is a little rough...just at the begining of the start cycle, kinda like a stutter-step. Yesterday I started it then shut it off and restarted. Did this 3 or 4 times. All starts seemed to me to have that little stutter and one time more than just a little stutter on the start.
    What led me to do that sequence was that I suspect the culprit to be the oil catch can since there is so much more hose space involved in the installation. I thought maybe the catch-can hose takes so much more filling of vapor to get to manifold maybe that was causing the stutter. but by restarted right away the hoses were already full. Now I don't believe the problem is in that as I also haven't run across any posts with problems after the catch-can installation. My only other guess is the valve, but it is only bout a year old and I cleaned it the little it needed and it moved easily.
    After I cleaned the manifold I got rid of the common P401..(?) code. So as far as I know it isn't showing a code. Appreciate any feedback. Getting ready for a long trip out west and this is bothering me. I'll be camping in some remote places and sure as heck don't want to get stuck somewhere with a dead Prius.
     
  8. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Since this is the only post here, I only know what you've said you've done in your post.
    Does it still "miss" after you've drive for a while and the engine is hot? Or does it only happen when it's cold?
    You may have a leaking head gasket between the #1 and 3 pistons. Causing a little coolant to get into the
    cylinders causing the miss.
    But you could also have leaking fuel injectors. There are several cleaners you can put in the fuel tank that will
    help clean them up. You might also want to check the places you get fuel.
     
  9. Michael Tomkins

    Michael Tomkins Junior Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Yes, previous post is on page 4 as it was posted awhile ago. Engine doesn't miss, just seems to start a little rough in first couple of engine revs otherwise it runs good. Haven't noticed any radiator coolant level change. I regularly use a good quality top engine cleaner. But I am going to put a can in the tank as you recommend. I travel quite a bit so I don't believe it's the fuel. Engine runs good, 140,000 miles, hot or cold .I don't notice any difference between cold and hot starts.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    It's invariably better to just continue the original thread, keep all the info in one contiguous package. But anyway, here we are. For reference, the old thread:

    2010 EGR Cleaning then cold engine shake | PriusChat

    Don't think it's been mentioned: did you clean the throttle body?
     
  11. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Okay then.. :)
    You can run some Berrymanns injector cleaner through it. You just put it in the gas filler.
    I personally use Marvel Mystery Oil. I get the quart size. Put half in the tank while I'm at the pump.
    Then I try to go through 3/4 of a tank then do the same with the rest of the bottle.
    I don't notice any real difference in the Prius. But I've been doing it since I go it and run Sunoco fuel.
    But in my Town& Country I would notice a difference.

    Since you're no losing any coolant, it could just be one injector is leaking slightly. If so, the cleaner
    could possibly clean it up.

    I turn 212,000 miles on my yesterday...

     
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  12. Michael Tomkins

    Michael Tomkins Junior Member

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    I'll do the injector cleaner, thanks. Yes, Leisk, I cleaned the throttle body. My intake manifold was filthy. You did me good.
    I may have found my problem. Tore the engine skid plate off and let it run so I could maybe hear a leak or see something weird and I did. I saw that the 3/4 heater hose I used to go into the intake manifold from the oil catch-can was collapsing. I only had about 6 inches of the 3/4" from the intake manifold and the rest was reduced to 1/2" back to oil catch-can. I don't know if this was the problem as the hose wasn't completely collapsed but it sure was restricting the flow. So I cut a piece of 1/2 " hose greased it and stuck it in the 3/4 to stiffen it up I didn't have any copper. I'm not entirely sure the fix will solve my issue but it does seem to start a little "easier". Or it may be wishful thinking on my part. I'll have to drive it a while before I know for sure.
    I also took the EGR valve cover plate off and made sure it opened and closed easily, no problems there. Appreciate everyone's help.
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Black rubber fuel line is good for OCC. Spec: SAE30R7 (or R6).
     
  14. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Before you started the cleaning, did you pull the 12v lead til everything was put back together?
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I didn't, didn't seem to hurt.
     
  16. PriusDadNoob

    PriusDadNoob Junior Member

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    Hi Michael, what was the final result of this? I too cleaned my entire EGR, intake, throttle body and MAF. Also installed a catch can. No apparent coolant leaks (coolant level is normal), no white gunk in my oil. Still I have some rattle/knock as I did before I did all this work!
     
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Clogging EGR can* lead to head gasket failure. Symptoms of HG failure can include engine shaking/bucking, in particular at start-up (due to (uncompressible) coolant leaking into combustion chamber). If you’ve left the cleaning too long, till after the HG has started leaking, while still a good idea, it will not reverse a head gasket failure.

    how many miles on it, at what miles did you do the cleaning, and were you getting shaking before the cleaning?

    * unproven personal theory
     
    #17 Mendel Leisk, Feb 10, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2022
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  18. Pdaddy

    Pdaddy Member

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    Misfire codes? I would double check the air intake manifold...lots of small passageways and a little blockage can cause a problem...if you are getting a misfire on only one or two cylinders then you know where to look.

    SM-G960U ?
     
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  19. PriusDadNoob

    PriusDadNoob Junior Member

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    66188700016__8A43D4B2-FA62-48A7-9459-0B1350D9A1E6.JPG IMG_1284.JPG 66189140753__8640F986-16BD-4124-805C-362FEBEE902E.JPG

    Mendel, thanks for the reply. I'm hoping it is not a head gasket failure. I've never replaced one but it looks like a major job. Cannot afford to have the work done by a mechanic so I would do it myself, but it's probably going to take me 2 days. Is there a sure fire way to see if it is my head gasket? Another priuschat member suggested I look at my cylinders with the spark plugs removed. Is there a camera that is made for that or something? The head is pretty far down there once you remove the plugs...

    238K on my 2010 Prius. I just bought the car. (I have a gen 2 that I LOVE, best car I've ever owned and I thought the gen 3 would be, well, a step up. not the case :-( I did all that EGR work just a month ago at 237K. It was bucking pretty significantly before I did that work, for almost 30 seconds when I started it up, but it was worse in cold weather. The EGR was "totally clogged" (see image I uploaded) One image is the replacement/cleaned EGR cooler. I bought a used one from a 2014 and cleaned it ahead of time to save time during the process.

    Could it be the EGR valve itself? I did put in a 2014 replacement (my car is a 2010) but the part numbers appear compatible on the Toyota website. I could buy a new Toyota EGR valve if that would help, but again, price and cost is a factor for me right now.

    Thanks for the help Mendel!
     
  20. PriusDadNoob

    PriusDadNoob Junior Member

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    So Pdaddy do you think I need to remove my intake manifold and clean it again?
     
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