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Featured New Graphene-Based SuperBattery To Charge In 15 Seconds

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by mjoo, Sep 8, 2020.

  1. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    From "New Graphene-Based SuperBattery To Charge In 15 Seconds":

    "The SuperBattery will utilize Skeleton’s patented Curved Graphene carbon material to achieve a charging time of just 15 seconds (240C) and charging cycles counted in hundreds of thousands.

    As in the case of other ultracapacitors, also this one is not energy-dense enough to replace the lithium-ion batteries, although it beats lead-acid and NiMH, reaching some 60 Wh/kg."
     
  2. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    When I read the title to the article I was like that sounds like a capacitor not a "super battery." And sure enough... And as the article mentions the future of battery powered vehicles is likely to include the use of super capacitors to help reduce peak loads and increase range of the battery pack, which is what Tesla and other companies are already developing. But the click bait nature of the less than honest headline is mildly annoying.
     
  3. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    Someone should learn how to use a dictionary.

    Definition of "battery" from Merriam-Webster: "a group of two or more cells (see CELL sense 5) connected together to furnish electric current"

    So, gosh, it must mean more than one super capacitor strung together...
     
  4. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    I can just imagine the size of the charging cable!!!

    On second thoughts - I can'to_O.
     
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  5. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    240C charge in a Prius hybrid battery. That's like 2,000 amps or around 20x the charge rate.
     
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  6. San_Carlos_Jeff

    San_Carlos_Jeff Active Member

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    When I do road trips I only stop to go to the bathroom for 10 seconds, so this is worthless.
     
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  7. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    Is getting much better fuel economy and power in a hybrid worthless?

    What if the brake pads were good for the life of the vehicle (much stronger Regen)?
     
  8. San_Carlos_Jeff

    San_Carlos_Jeff Active Member

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    I contemplated putting a "/s" on my comment but mistakenly assumed it was obvious.
     
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  9. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I always figured a SuperCap would be a great way to power a shoulder held, rail gun.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  11. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    I just tried the math.
    To fully charge a 600 amp/hour battery in 15 seconds would take a pulse of current at about 144,000 amps. :eek:
    If I did the math right.
     
  12. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    Prius Gen 4: 0 to 60 in 11 seconds
    Prius Gen 5 with SuperBattery™: airborne in 11 seconds
     
  13. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    So you're saying if my flashlight runs on 2 AA batteries it's powered by a battery, but if my flashlight runs on 1 AA battery it's no longer powered by a battery? Seems to me that the logic in that is even worse than the one the headline writer used in this article.
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Is that an emoticon? Couldn't find it. (n)

    List of emoticons - Wikipedia
     
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  15. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    You don't have a dictionary or you just want someone else to look it up?

    There are multiple meanings for the word "battery". That is one definition for "battery". The other definition is "a cell". A single capacitor or more than one capacitor can be called a battery by definition.

    Being that a hybrid battery normally consists of hundreds to thousands of "cells" - I'm leaning towards the first definition.
     
    #15 mjoo, Sep 9, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  16. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    It is not faulty logic, it is faulty "common usage" of the term "battery".
    Each 1.5 volt dry cell is a CELL, not a battery, even though pretty much everybody calls them that.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Day to day language is quite flexible, and how words are used there do become the accepted norm. When looking at the rack of alkaline batteries for sale at the local store, the only things that are technically batteries are the 9 volts. Very few people will think of a group of rail guns first upon hearing or reading battery.

    The first person to use the term battery in conjunction to electricity generation was Ben Franklin, and the cells he was referring to were capacitors. History of the battery - Wikipedia The term battery itself has been used for far longer in the sense of the legal definition of assault and battery, where it eventually moved to use for the action of artillery. battery | Origin and meaning of battery by Online Etymology Dictionary

    As for the topic of the OP, released technical details are light, and poor reporting might be conflating two separate developments. Mjoo's post left an important detail out from the linked article, "The key differentiator for the SuperBattery is Skeleton’s patented Curved Graphene carbon material, enabling the high power and long lifetime of ultracapacitors to be applied in a graphene battery."

    They are taking material developed for capacitors, and applying it to batteries. which means they are likely making an electrochemical capacitor(EC), Mixing Batteries and Supercapacitors: A Powerful Combination | IEE | UC Santa Barbara These articles might be clearer on the topic; KIT & Skeleton developing graphene batteries - electrive.com and Skeleton and Karlsruhe Institute of Technology developing a new graphene battery with 15-second charging time; SuperBattery - Green Car Congress

    The use of an ultracapacitor and chemical battery together is a separate topic where poor writing might be mixing it with the EC development. The idea isn't new, and you can already buy lead acid ones; What is a super lead acid battery? - Knowledge - Linkage Electronics (HK) Co.,Limited, UltraBattery®. Rechargeable Hybrid Lead Acid Battery - Ecoult. They being referred to as a super battery, and the EC under development being named SuperBattery doesn't help with clarity. more joy from the flexibility of language.
     
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  18. San_Carlos_Jeff

    San_Carlos_Jeff Active Member

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    In internet speak if you put /s after something it means it was sarcastic. I don't know if there is an emoticon for sarcasm. Maybe rolling eyes?
     
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  19. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Sounds like your history is tainted by US patriotism=misinformation... Here's the one most credited with getting the battery started: Alessandro Volta - Wikipedia

    And my reference to combining batteries with capacitors is based on last year's latest products at the annual battery convention that decided to permanently be based in Detroit from now on. It was a home alarm company that was advancing this design in order for your back up battery to go 30 years without needing to be replaced. Also Tesla and other car companies are buying up all the capacitor making companies.
     
    #19 PriusCamper, Sep 9, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  20. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

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    I am also often annoyed by the technically incorrect usage of the word "battery". But we technicians, engineers and scientists must learn to live with it, because it is well established in common language.

    Nonetheless, we should take every good and reasonable opportunity to make laypersons aware of the correct distinction. But please, do it in a succinct, uncondescending, polite, and friendly manner.
     
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