1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Featured Get the First-Ever 2021 RAV4 Prime Starting at Under USD$40K MSRP

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tideland Prius, May 29, 2020.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,590
    11,212
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Isn't available for sale in NA yet. It might have arrived at dealers this quarter before the pandemic.
     
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,309
    3,586
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    "As on the RAV4 Hybrid, the innovative Predictive Efficient Drive feature ...."

    hmm not sure if we have that on our RAV4H..remembering the hills on the way to Walmart?
     
  3. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    1,389
    947
    4
    Location:
    Foot of Pikes Peak
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited
    The Rav4H does have PED. If you have GPS it shows on the map where you have done regenerative braking at stops.

    I don't think it makes a lot of difference but I am getting somewhat better mpg this summer than last when the vehicle was new.
     
    #103 royrose, Jul 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,600
    8,034
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV

    downloadfile-5.jpg
    .
     
  5. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    1,389
    947
    4
    Location:
    Foot of Pikes Peak
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited
    You can "build" one on the Toyota website now but when you check inventory none can be found.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,590
    11,212
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    In May, it was announced deliveries to dealers would start in the summer. That started June 20th, but company scheduling usually revolves around quarters, and the new one started yesterday.

    Seeing how the Priusp sold almost 2500 in its first two months, and we are only getting 5000 Rav4ps this year, I would expect the first ones to dealers to be closer to the end of summer.
     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,767
    16,014
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Did we ever discuss the usable battery size?

    If I did the math right, it's 15.2kWh (out of 18.8kWh).

    94mpge/33.7kWh = 2.789 miles/kWh
    2.789/42 miles = 15.057 kWh

    I got 15.2kWh when converting from metric (68km or 42.5 miles)

    Also 94mpge is 22.4kWh/100km or 2.789 miles/kWh.... that seems terrible.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,600
    8,034
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Nearly 3 miles per kWh really isn't terrible, when you consider such a Vehicle .... it's weight, size, drag coefficient is a far cry from a prius. That level of efficiency is pretty much on par with our Chrysler Pacifica plug-in. Push a couple tons of car down the road & you have to give up something. True - the model x can get 3mi/kWh & is bigget/heavier than the Rav - but the Rav is not configured to be a mileage champ.
    .
     
    #108 hill, Sep 18, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,958
    8,836
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The EPA rating of Prius Prime, 133mpge is only 3.95miles/kWh. That means, the Rav4 Prime is about 30% reduction. Comparison of the gas engine side between Rav4 Hybrid of 40mpg vs Prius of 54mpg is about 26% reduction. Considering that my own Pathfinder Hybrid is giving me only 25mpg after a year, for a compact SUV, the number looks good to me.
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,017
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Plus, my long-term average on my Prime is 5 miles/kWh - 25% better than the rating.
     
    Salamander_King likes this.
  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,958
    8,836
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes, that makes me think the RAV4 PRIME can do better than rated 94mpge in hands of right drivers.
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,525
    4,057
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Compare Side-by-Side



    Yes you are close but a little too precise as there are rounding errors lets call it 2.8 miles/kwh or a charge of 15 kwh to charge it. There are charging losses so its likely less than 90% or 13.5 kwh of useable pack for EV range or around 72% of the pack. Its likely they need to maintain more of the pack for power for hybrid operations.

    It is not terrible. At $0.17/kwh canadian its about 6 canadian cents per kwh which would be equivalent to gasoline @$2.40/gallon canadian for the rav4 hybrid at 40 mpg and I think gasoline is more expensive than that.

    The bigger problem with the rav4 prime is toyota doesn't appear to want to deliver it into many places. I'm sure they could sell a lot in texas with cheap renewable electricity prices and commutes that would be all electric and long drives that at 38 mpg highway would be much more efficient than most current crossovers that people drive. It could definitely reduce air pollution in dallas and houston.
     
    Tideland Prius and hill like this.
  13. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    1,945
    1,785
    0
    Location:
    Southern MN
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    II

    I'm not sure what we were expecting though. It is similar to the Gen3 Prius vs. Prius v wagon. The fact that it is heavier makes a huge difference. I can really notice the weight between out Gen3 Prius and our Pruis v. And the EPA and fuelly averages are pretty clear that it's not just me.

    Edit : And isn't it true that the Rav4 Prime is 'tuned' for more power, etc..vs. the Prius Pime? If so, that could certainly play into it as well.
     
  14. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,439
    1,216
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    There are 12 for sale in our area. Three are XSE and the rest are SE. Only one is actually MSRP under 40K, at $39,609. All the rest approach $42,000 for the SE and a rather wide variance between $46,000 and darn near $49,000 for the XSE. Odd none of the XSE have the XSE Premium Package with options which is supposed to add in the 6.6kWh charger.


    iPad ? Pro
     
  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,958
    8,836
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I don't think the comparison of Gen3 Prius vs. Prius V wagon is not quite equivalent for comparing Prius Prime vs. Rav4 Prime. They are totally different cars. Yeah, I would never expect Rav4 to be anywhere close to the FE of Prius. If saving fuel (either gas or electricity) is the main goal, I will drive Prius Prime any time. That being said, after being a single car household (Prius Prime only) for a little over a year, we came to a conclusion that we do need a bigger car with larger cargo space. If Sienna hybrid was out last year, we might have bought it, but then again it would have been a quite bit pricier than what we paid for a used Pathfinder Hybrid last year.
     
    farmecologist likes this.
  16. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    1,945
    1,785
    0
    Location:
    Southern MN
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    II
    Of course it is not quit equivalent. (y) Just pointing out that weight makes a huge difference...regardless of drivetrain. Physics. Should be obvious but I see far too many discussions..even on here...that leave this important fact out. It needs to be reiterated.

    Yeah..weight vs. space is probably the biggest trade off there is. We got the Prius v to replace our minivan...so the reduced MPG was more than tolerable. (y)
     
    Salamander_King likes this.
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,600
    8,034
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    a slow charging 240v is something that new buyers won't understand until after they already own it. We wouldn't have purchased a max 3.6kW charging car - knowing a 6.6kW onboard charger can refill in under 2 hours. Brand new buyers don't get that, and manufacturers can save a little bit of money that way. Heck, manufacturers even use chintzier upholstery that you don't like - just to save a few cents here & there.
    In any event, aren't many dealerships marking them up thousands over invoice?
    .
     
    #117 hill, Sep 18, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
    austingreen likes this.
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,590
    11,212
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The package has more than just the upgraded charger, and not sending out any optioned out examples with the roll out is odd. More likely the factory couldn't get some required part at this time.

    Charge times I've seen listed are; 12hrs at Level 1, 4.5hrs with the 3.3kW charger, and 2.5hrs with the 6.6kW.
     
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,600
    8,034
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Sadly, many if not most public Chargers are running 2 legs of 3 phase, which frequently means charging down from 240v to 208v. So adding that 208v charge - kiss off another 15% of charge times.
     
    #119 hill, Sep 18, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,767
    16,014
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    6.6kW is standard in Canada (go figure) FWIW.

    I don't understand the disdain for 208V 3-phase other than lower voltage and thus slightly longer recharge times.

    My parkade has 208V 3-phase 50A... what's the difference I guess over 240V? I'm sure I asked about this in another thread but there must be a reason they install 3-phase AC instead of single phase, no?