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Featured Lexus Self-Charging (no plug)

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by El Dobro, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Where in the marketing of the Mirai do they call it a hybrid. Your talking about an entirely different vehicle from many moons ago.
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    When you go to the hydrogen station, can you choose to fill 100% renewable hydrogen?
    No, you are stuck with whatever they have, and you'll like it. Buying hydrogen is just like buying gasoline. If I wanted gasoline made from Texas sweet crude because it has a lower carbon impact, I can't get it here. Instead I'm stuck with whatever the station has, and it might have tar sand source mixed in.

    With electricity, much of the country has a choice about where it comes from. You want to use renewable electricity for your plug in, you can. You can even choose to install solar at your home, or even wind.

    While you could use that solar to run an electrolyzer, you won't be able to fill your FCEV's tank without paying a huge price. The home filling CNG units ended up being too expensive and unreliable, and they only had to fill a tank up to a third of what a hydrogen car needs.
    It was their FCEV preceding the Mirai; the FCHV-Adv. Toyota only gave up on using hybrid recently.
     
  3. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    It was not it was an early development of the present Mirai. Recent, like 10 or more years ago.
     
  4. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Oops
    Maybe another edit will take care of that

    In the meantime, today's fuel cell technology is such that the car can run on hydrogen that has to be received through the hose getting plugged in every so often, or it can run on the battery, or it can run on both . That's just the honest reason Toyota references it as a hybrid. That's more honest than GM calling the Chevy Volt an (extended range) electric car .... an EREV. It's a plug-in hybrid .... just like today's menu of hydrogen cars. You can't refill their battery, without the hydrogen hose being plugged in once in awhile. You can't refill a Lexus rx400h without the gasoline hose being plugged in once in awhile.
    .
     
    #65 hill, Oct 21, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The FCHV-Adv came out, and was available for limited fleet use, about 6 or 7 years before the Mirai. The Prius has a design cycle of 6 years, and there wasn't another FCEV between the two. Then Toyota was using HSD in combination with FCEV up to the Mirai being available to the public.

    The use of hybrid for cars got discussed in the beginning of that 20+ page Mirai thread. It refers to power sources on the car, not energy sources. Otherwise, we'd be calling dual-fuel ICE cars hybrids.

    GM defined EREV in a paper submitted to the SAE, and didn't deny being a subset of PHEV. Just like hybrid has full and mild.

    Toyota didn't justify using hybrid with a FCEV. They slapped their FCEVs with THS-II and then HSD for marketing as the gen2 Prius was a huge success at the time.
    Toyota to Use its Fuel Cell Hybrid Bus at 2005 World Expo - Green Car Congress
     
  7. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    If the Lexus battery is "self-charging" as it clearly says in the ad, then take it out of the car and place it in the driveway and let's watch it and see how it "self charges."

    My guess is that we will only see it "self discharge."

    Mike
     
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  8. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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  9. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Well surely you jest!
     
  10. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    There's not a single statement in there from Toyota that said that the Mirai is a hybrid, just that they used a lot of the components from their high volume hybrid production in the Mirai (which is entirely true).

    By using those high volume components it reduced the cost of the Mirai. A fuel cell powertrain doesn't even need a battery, it is better suited to a supercapacitor, but building an automotive grade supercapacitor would have increased the cost substantially, so they used the battery from the Camry.
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It was enough for them to slap THS-II and HSD on their FCEVs. Wising up with regards to the Mirai doesn't change the fact that Toyota tried getting FCEVs, buses and cars, called hybrids.
     
  12. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    PCU from Toyota hybrids, motor from Toyota hybrids, battery from Toyota hybrids, and last, in Toyota's own words, "THE BOOST CONVERTER Our four-phase boost converter brings voltage to 650 volts. Driving at a higher voltage makes more efficient use of the motor, giving Mirai a power output equivalent to other hybrids in Toyota’s portfolio." . "OTHER HYBRIDS in Toyota's portfolio". Hmmmm.......

    9781609052607_p0_v1_s260x420.jpg
     
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  13. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Still never stated its a Hybrid. Just because it uses hybrid components does not make the Mirai a Hybrid. If they built the Mirai with airplane tires, does that now make it an airplane?
     
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #74 hill, Oct 22, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Do you realize you are arguing with Toyota on this?
     
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  16. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Show me where Toyota markets the Mirai as a hybrid?
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It isn't about marketing the Mirai. It is about what Toyota wanted to call FCEVs. That is, all of them.

    They have backed down with the Mirai, as no one else in the industry went along with them, but they still feel the need to point out that the Mirai is using hybrid components. Yet the components they list are EV components. None of them are hybrid only, and are likely being used in their BEVs.

    The only one that drew a line between FCEVs and hybrids was Toyota.