I'm Tired of Waiting for 100MPG!

Patience. I've been waiting for years... yet some fundamental questions still have not been answered.

Those conversion places you mention have failed to provide enthusiasts with actual data. That's a big deal. We want to properly justify the cost. Vague promotional material that state "100+ MPG" is unfortunately just hype. What has the average MPG been for real-world testing, which includes a daily commute and use of the heater.

We have absolutely no information about routine service either. Who's going to provide it? Will a dealer touch a hybrid that's been converted? If not, where the heck do you go?

 

The Prius uses a gasoline engine. Never put diesel or biodiesel into a vehicle that uses gasoline and vice/versa...Never put ethanol or gas into a diesel powered vehicle.

You need to read your owners manual. (I recall that there was a limit to the amount of ethanol blended fuel can be used. We do not use much ethanol (yet) in the NE.)

 

Have we heard from anyone who has had a conversion done in any of these forums?

 

This is a cool Popular Mechanics article

The thumbnail is a 100mpg sedan could be built today if you are willing to pay 2-3 times what you paid for the Prius with a little less room and less acceleration. Doing 75-80mpg in a sedan is something that is technically possible and economically feasible.

The Popular Mechanics prototype is expensive because it uses exotic technology and materials.

It's a very interesting read.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(danatt @ Nov 21 2006, 08:46 PM) [snapback]352847[/snapback]</div>

Yes.
http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=26465&hl=

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Sep 29 2006, 08:41 AM) [snapback]325561[/snapback]</div>

Ok, is it hype, well in my opinion yes and no.

So how is it yes and no? Well it depends on how far do you drive in a normal day, and what kind of driving do you do.

With a Prius conversion you are converting a 50 mpg car. You put in a second battery pack and the weight is such that you still get about 50 mpg or a negligible differences depending on the type of pack you put in. You can buy a pack to make a Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle A.K.A. (PHEV), and you can make the pack size enough to propel you 10 EV miles, 20 EV miles, or even 30 EV miles. These can be referenced as PHEV10, PHEV20, or PHEV30.

Please note this is to show how to get off of foreign oil so right now lets talk about the fuel part, we can talk about the electricity you have to replace it with in a moment.

Most people drive about 30 miles a day or less. (Yes some drive more, but most drive less.)

If you convert to a PHEV30 and drive 30 miles a day and you could do all 30 miles pure EV (Note: at less than 34 mph!), for infinite miles per gallon.

If you convert to a PHEV20 and drive 30 miles a day and you could do all 20 miles pure EV (Note: at less than 34 mph!). Then you still have to go 10 miles at 50 mpg average.
So…that is 10/50 or .2 gallons. Then take 30 miles / .2 gallons and you get 150 miles to a gallon.

If you convert to a PHEV10 and drive 30 miles a day and you could do all 10 miles pure EV (Note: at less than 34 mph!). Then you still have to go 20 miles at 50 mpg average.
So…that is 20/50 or .4 gallons. Then take 30 miles / .4 gallons and you get 75 miles to a gallon.

***You need to know if you go over 34 mph you will still see benefit as you will have all green bars and the electric motor will help more than normal still giving you an added benefit. No, I don’t have these numbers.

Now I hope you can do the math for yourself with your own numbers.
1. How far do you drive in a day normally?
2. How big of a battery pack do you want to buy? (Knowing that batteries are expensive and unlike the regular Prius main battery, it will have to be replaced more off because you would deeply discharge it every day.) (Batteries are way too expensive to buy a pack bigger than you need.)
3. What is your normal MPG average for your hybrid?

Know that the parts other than the battery pack will cost you about $3,000 and you can keep those for several battery packs even if you change the type of pack.

What I have learned about Prius Conversions is that it is a lot like learning about the Prius it self. You can’t truly under stand how it all works in one easy lesson.

Is it worth it? I think it may be just to stop using so much foreign oil.

How long for the pay back?

How long will it take to get the payback for your leather upgrade?
Never!
Then why on earth would you pay more for leather then?

Or better still…

How long to you see a payback for that up grade to a V8 from a V6?
Never!
Well then why would you pay for more for a V8?

As for the electricity to recharge those batteries, it is less then the cost of fuel and you will have to get that data elsewhere.

 

i actually talked with a guy who converted his Prius by Cal cars at the Lacey, WA Alternative Fuel Car Show and Electric Car Rally. he got the conversion for free and all he had to do for it was get a BUNCH of decals on his car (i would do it in a second) and take it to various car shows that highlight EV's. alternative fuels etc.

his conversion was probably the worst you could get, using lead acid batteries that had to be replaced about every 3 years. he could get 20 in all EV mode.

to be honest with ya, i have already determined that with a 20 miles AEV (all electric vehicle) car, i would average over 100 miles.

my commute is 5½ miles at either 25 or 35 mph. because of the hills involved in my commute, i will still burn gas (i live halfway up the hill that faces the southern tip of Puget Sound and its a steeeep one) but around town driving still accounts for over half of my driving.

i guess my life has been compressed to the point that all my needs are simply close by. but the big factor for me is the closeness. i have TWO branches of my bank that are within 5 blocks of me. i have two major shopping areas within a mile of me. and this is the kind of driving that KILLS me. with a plug-in i can do all these trips in EV, i would have it made. my mileage as it is is still pretty good. but at this time of year when its colder, my mileage goes up on the freeway and drops around town. in the summer, its the exact opposite. now, my car cools down too much between stops. i have pipe insulation stuffed into every nook and cranny on the front end to keep air from cooling the radiator and that probably helps but it is not enough.

also have to look at climates, i live in a mild climate where sub-freezing temps are not normal. (its about 51º F right now which is typical). in an EV mode, you will need to generate cabin heat via an electric heat source, so that is another factor to consider as well.

i guess what peeves me the most is that there is an obvious demand but little government incentives to get this technology off the ground so these small startups are forced to do it on their own. the only real progress i have seen is in the educational research area. UC-Davis has remarkable stats for conversions they have done on all types of vehicles INCLUDING full size SUV's. they have achieved this because of funding, other independent companies could do the same if they had the money as well to put into manufacturing facilities. its hard to start new technology from the ground up. these aint computers.

 

My perspective on this issue changed when I started thinking in gallons per 100 miles rather than miles per gallon.

10 mpg = 10 gallons per 100 miles
20 mpg = 5 gallons per 100 miles
50 mpg = 2 gallons per 100 miles
100 mph = 1 gallon per 100 miles

You already get 50 mpg. So you spend $12,000 and give up your hybrid warranty to save just one gallon per 100 miles. Does that make sense even if you could today?

I am waiting until a factory PHEV comes out and I am not holding my breath.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Nov 22 2006, 08:50 AM) [snapback]353044[/snapback]</div>

Agree. This is a technology that is available now without massive infrastructure changes. Check out pluginpartners.org, some heavy duty sponsors. There is a petition to get these to market and a very good PHEV video. Also check out the new book on Prius News, Plug in Hybrids-the cars that will recharge America.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Nov 22 2006, 10:26 AM) [snapback]353030[/snapback]</div>

Well said we need funding and we need to keep this going so we will get auto makers to start offering PHEVs. I am working on that now so I can do more conversions

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Nov 22 2006, 10:50 AM) [snapback]353044[/snapback]</div>

I hope you don't have to wait long. The more conversions that are done the sooner factory PHEVs with be here. And yes, if does make sense to spend a little more to stop using foreign oil! We are not just talking about converting Prius but all Hybrids that use synergy drive.

 

Simplygreg,

If your route accomodates pulse and glide, and you are able to successfully apply it, you should easily be able to get 70 mpg out of a prius. I have only had the car 4 months. As I have been learning, my mileage has been going up and up. I have not put many miles on my car (3100) as I have been away for work about 70% of the time. Other than this northeaster that has blown through in the last couple of days, I have been able to get 70-75 miles per gallon on my trips around town and to and from work. My last big tank (I fill up at the end of the month regardless of mileage for data reasons) was 74.7 mpg at 800.1 miles (MFD). I am sure that when the temperatures climb to the 80's again, I will be able to get 80 mpg with 900 mile tanks for five to six months of the year. I drive on 30-45 mph speed limited roads and have many traffic lights and other cars to deal with. It is possible.

70 mpg is 75% better gas mileage than you are getting now with no need to spend any more money until new technology becomes mainstream. Just my thoughts.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Nov 22 2006, 04:48 PM) [snapback]353237[/snapback]</div>

Yes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HBO6 @ Nov 22 2006, 12?07 PM)</div>

Yes. The Plug-In Parnters website is right on. The video webcast of the national campaign launch was very good. Will Wynn (mayor of Austin, TX) and R. James Woolsey are both inspiring and clearly on top of their game. We need more folks like them in government.

I've already ordered 3 copies of the book. One for me, one for a former student of mine (I taught high-school Physics the past couple of years) who is going off to college next year with an interest in science and alternative energy, and one for my representative in our state legislature who comes by every election season.

If you listen to Will Wynn in the video, it seems like state governments are the ones that need to be on board to promote this into becoming a reality. They can make an impact by providing the committment to purchase PHEV's for vehicle fleets in order to stimulate the auto manufacturers. We can do our part by contacting the representatives in our state legislatures. Before I talked to my representative, he didn't even know what a PHEV was.

Now, with a democratic majority in Congress and (perhaps) a shift to stronger support for alternative energy measures, there may be hope for things to happen at the federal level. We should be writing our representatives in Congress and Senators as well.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VABeachPrius @ Nov 22 2006, 09:06 PM) [snapback]353341[/snapback]</div>

I have read about what VABeachPrius has done in the past and I'm impressed he has done it while there is still a new car smell.

I know many people will say they can't hypermile to this extent, and I respect that. Consider however that you can still do some hypermiling techniques even if you need to commute at a higher speed. Don't rush to a stop, keep as steady a speed as possible, consider the access lanes alonge a freeway, etc....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Nov 22 2006, 12:53 AM) [snapback]352888[/snapback]</div>

Not to get off topic, but on the '94-'04 Mustangs, there was almost no advantage to getting a V-6 over a V-8...the V-6s get about the same mileage! Ok, two less spark plugs to buy, maybe .5 quarts less oil, but that's about it. As far as the insurance companies are concerned, a Mustang is a Mustang. It's a high-risk car no matter what the trim level.

However, you make a good point. And as for 100 mpg, it's here! Go find a small scooter and you'll get 100 mpg!

Heck, I've seen some 250cc bikes that manage 74mpg! (I think one of 'em was a '94 Honda or Yamaha)

Unfortunately, for automobile technology, 100mpg is being held back - I imagine because of red tape, factory tooling, and a whole truckload more of red tape. The technology has been there for ages. In fact, we've even regressed! Honda's very own Civic VX hatchback, which was once capable of 48mpg highway, is no longer so. Now, the Civic hatchback gets 40mpg - and that on a good day.

So, whenever the oil companies are through putting a stranglehold on the car manufacturers to get their way, we'll finally have fuel-efficient cars. Until then, fuel efficiency is limited only to the hybrids