Featured Exclusive Photos of the New 2021 Toyota Mirai!!

Can you define "soon?"

Would you bet that there are 60 hydrogen filling stations in CA before Tesla gets their next 60 Superchargers built?

And how many cars will fill at the same time with H2? Most Tesla locations will have 10 or 20 or more charging stalls...at least one will have at least 56. Yeah, that's right 56 stalls in Firebaugh. No one even heard of Firebaugh (I-5 intersection with one gas station) until Tesla began installing a new "SF - LA commuter city" there.

Mike

 

OK, OK. They did a nice job making the wheels pretty. To bad they ignored that tiny little question of "What do I do with it after I use up that initial tank of H?"

 

Funny. Too many people want EVs.
Of course H2 stations can keep up -- no one wants to be locked into another fuel source that you can't make yourself at home. And is more expensive than electricity. And even though there are plenty of H2 stations per FC car they don't exist in enough places to go on a real road trip.

Mike

 

Such backward thinking .....

(knew i couldn't say that without a smirk)
.

 

A luxury? Funny. ~65-70% of people own their own homes plus there are more who rent in a single family home. Sure, it isn't EVERYONE...but it is a large majority. For those that do not have that they can:
a) try and get landlords to install chargers (an apartment complex 500' from me has 2 chargers)
b) go to a Supercharger location (two within 3 miles of my house and another one coming soon

Both of those options are BETTER than all the H2 stations near me (20-30 miles away)

Backwards THINKING?
Sort of like Blockbuster compared to Netflix.
Or Amazon compared to Barnes and Noble.
Or landline compared to cell phone.
Digital camera compared to 35mm film

Refuel at home compared to going to a gas/H2 station

Mike

 

Nice spin.

In order for hydrogen to get off government's teat, there needs to be demand for it. If the stations aren't getting enough traffic to pay for their expenses, then there is no demand for it.

Of the households in the US that can charge at home, only a small portion have bought a plug in. While they continue to buy plug ins, and they are, we can work on addressing the charging needs of those that don't.

Many households own two or more cars. With just home charging, one of those cars can be a BEV for commuter use. Or they can get a PHEV if they need travel beyond EV range of home. This means plug in adoption can start in areas before the arrival of public charging.

Hydrogen cars can't say that. Meanwhile public chargers are increasing across the country.

You don't have electricity

If charging isn't practical at a home now, a person can take steps to make it so if they want a plug in. They could wait until they can correct whatever prevents charging where they are now is addressed. Look into whether Level 1 charging is enough, or get a PHEV. They can even move to another residence nearby where it isn't a problem.

The only solution for a person that wants a hydrogen car without stations nearby is to wait until somebody else builds one, or move to California.

You missed the snark.

I'd say it's outdated thinking for a personal car, but people generally get stuck in their ways.

Now I understand people with cars in LA might want to take a road trip to Las Vegas. When can they do so with their hydrogen car?

Well, I wouldn't drive into NJ for just the cheaper gas, so I'm not going to drive to Connecticut to get hydrogen.

That is BS about the weight.

Japanese reviewers have had a chance to check out the car for about a month now.
2021 Toyota Mirai Already Reviewed In Japan A Month Before Reveal
From auto translations, the new Mirai is about 4189 pounds. That makes it over a hundred pounds heavier than the current one.

It did gain about 30hp. So the power to weight ratio has improved a little; 0.037 to 0.043. Still worse than the Camry Hybrid XLE's 0.058 though.

And what is the point of a fold down front passenger headrest? So the back passenger can have a better view? If it's for aid in fitting long things, the car doesn't have fold down rear seats.

 

Plug in supporters are aware of this, and it was pointed out here there are many household than can support home charging. Enough in fact, that plug in sales can grow while we work on charging for those that can't.

That's why plug in cars are beating hydrogen ones. Their growth is not reliant on the installation of refueling infrastructure that is outside the car buyers' control.

So someone can't charge at home now. the chances are more likely for entirety of this country that they will be able to when they get their next car than they would have a hydrogen station close enough to them.

When will Toyota sell the 30k a year Mirai they claim to be able to make? Will 99% of those also be leases, because people don't want an individual one for longer than 3 years?

I'd rather not.

So when can someone drive their Mirai to Vegas?
Where did you get it being a 1000 pounds lighter than the first one?
What about the Camry hybrid being faster?

 

So?

We shouldn't develop new technologies because everyone can't make use of it right away.
A large majority of people who have cars can have a way to charge at home.
And for those that don't there are lots of public charging opportunities via Superchargers and L2 chargers.
Far more people have access to public chargers than have access to H2 stations today.

Are you are suggesting that it is easier to build out H2 stations than to incrementally add to the existing charging infrastructure? Doubtful.

Hydrogen is going to lose out, for sure, in the personal vehicle market because:
- costs more per mile
- can't refuel at home
- expensive to install H2 production
- easier to install chargers, even if slow ones, in out of the way places
- easier to produce electricity that is renewable in any location

The ONLY thing H2 has as an advantage is that it is faster to recharge. But for the vast majority of people this only matters a few times a year since they can recharge at home or while doing something else (working, shopping, dining).

Most important for the average person is the cost per mile even if it takes a little longer to refuel. This has been proven over and over in a ~scientific way and places like Costco where people will wait in line for 10 or 20 minutes just to save 5 or 10 cents per gallon. Why do they do that? Answer: because price matters.

Mike

 

anyone else remember the hit piece motortrend did on inflated & range & efficiency
claims?

2016 Toyota Mirai Long-Term Verdict: Pulling Off the Hydrogen Highway

hopefully there will be less fluf now - since the ugly factor on the body has been reduced.
.

 

How's that going to help people get to Vegas?
Charging takes longer, and there might be a line, but at least you can leave the state.

How many of those can run all four dispensers at once? The recent one that open reported here can only fill cars at a time.

Toyota was expecting to sell 30k Prius Primes in the first year. They didn't. They haven't made any prediction on Mirai sales. The 30k is how many they could possibly make in a year for the world.

 

I don't know about Toyota, (maybe a hint to the upper management), but Hyundai provides 7 day car rental per year for the Nexo, (not sure how many years)...

moto g(7) power ?

 

How will the Kenworth get back?