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2010 knock knock

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by WattsUp, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. WattsUp

    WattsUp New Member

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    Hey y'all. I know there are 100s of posts about this already but I've reached an impass.
    Mine started with the rattle in the cold mornings, then went to every morning. Finally got a CEL, misfire #1, #2 and random. Changed plugs and coil packs (#1 looked fouled so, on the right track right) cleared codes and voila. for 2 days.
    Cleaned out my EGR and cooler. Couldn't create the rattle on test drive, made it about 2 more days. Once it came back, she came back with a vengeance and the car only made it about 4 more days, getting progressively worse until... KAPUT. water in the oil, losing in the reservoir, moisture on the oil cap. The works.
    Mine has 230,309 miles.
    Got me a junk yard motor with 118,000 from a 2012, I used my EGR/cooler since mine was freshly cleaned and ready to go back in and reused my intake manifold (having all the ports freshly cleaned and cleared). Changed the oil filter, topped off oil and coolant. as soon as I started it up, IT'S KNOCKING/RATTLING TOO!!!! Is it possible that a 118K mi engine is blown too or is there any way that there is something else funky with something that is still in my car causing this?
     
  2. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

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    Any codes?

    In most instances the knocking sound is a symtom, not the problem. The sound is likely coming from the damper plate, but the reason it's making that sound is generally because of a misfire. In the case of your old engine, coolant in cylinders 1 & 2 was causing misfires, which in turn makes the damper plate rattle/knock.

    I'd pull the spark plugs and see what they look like.
     
  3. WattsUp

    WattsUp New Member

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    interesting... first i've heard about the damper plate being the source of the knock. So with all my time in this car over the last couple weeks I came to the conclusion that the source of the shake, rattle and roll was coolant slowly entering the #1 cylinder when the ICE turned off and puddling up then trying to compress as the ICE turns on. Once all that was blown out then it could run as it should. Am I totally wrong here? Too much coolant would cause the plugs not to be able to fire then causing the misfire. I'll check the plugs but if the problem persists then it seems to me that this engine has a blow HG as well still allowing coolant into the cylinders. I'm hoping that there is something (cheap) that is external on the engine that I can swap out and magically have a great car again.

    I did see one youtube video of a guy that was diagnosing this rattle/misfire issue and he said that there is a update that TOYOTA has to do for the egr I think? has anyone on here heard of that???
     
  4. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    o_O
     
  5. jimontheocean

    jimontheocean Member

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    I wouldnt run it anymore, tear it down to the block and do a hg kit on it.
    I won mine on ebay for 3500 and it had 166k on it.
    Ran just fine, but as a preventive maintenance, thats what i did.
    Now , no worries for another 150k.
    Just my 2cents worth.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  6. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

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    You're absolutely correct about the old engine: coolant entering the cylinder caused the misfire. It's entirely possible your new engine has a blown head gasket too, but as I'm sure you know, that's not the only thing that can cause misfire. For instance, here's a video I posted years ago of my '08 with the same knocking/rattling:



    It turned out all it was was a bad ignition coil on cylinder #1.

    You didn't say whether there are any codes.
     
  7. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    As the ICE runs, each cylinder that fires causes the crankshaft to speed up very quickly, then it slows down until the next cylinder fires. Those pulses of twisting force (torque) are generally bad for gears inside the transmission and cause havoc with the electrical timing for controlling the motors.

    So the dampener is between the engine and trans, and it permits about 10* of relative movement but in order to do that it has to compress 4 springs. The springs compress and absorb some of the shock of combustion then extend partially until the next cylinder. It makes the "rough" bang-bang-bang of ICE operation into a smoother twisting that's better for the trans and motors.

    When there is a misfire, the crankshaft slows down too much until the next good cylinder fires. The dampener springs unload completely then full travel and hit its stops on the next combustion event. The shock travels through the trans and causes the motors to "hiccup" as the irregular movement throws off the motor timing.

    As other said, there can be many things that can cause a misfire. Coolant or oil ingestion or fouling. Ignition problems. Fueling problems. Compression loss. Etc, etc.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Is the coolant dropping? If so that's most likely culprit.
     
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  9. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    You sure you received an engine with 118k miles on it?
     
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  10. abdullah arslan

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    I'm not an expert like other guys but my guess is blown head gasket, since Prius stops the engine more often than gas vehicles, it triggers the head gasket blown easier. So this causes coolant leakage to the cylinder(s), whichever has in it knocks/rattles until it finally able to fire and dumps the coolant. Also after a while rattling cylinder(s) makes a hole beneath the engine and it makes the situation more critical unless it is prevented

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  11. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Someone just wrote an arbitrary # of miles on the engine run right after it was placed on the shelf. Same like when a private seller looks at you in the eye and says “90% highway miles” when you know that ain’t the truth.
     
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  12. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Not sure on your though process of what stop and run of the engine has to do with the head gasket? The engine actually runs cooler when it shuts down at lights. Head gasket issue is based on the EGR getting clogged and not allowing coolant to flow through the EGR cooler. It’s always the number 1 cylinder that leaks.
     
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  13. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

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    Slow down there fellas. With the limited info we have so far, it's a little early to be diagnosing this as a blown head gasket.

    Here's what we know: @WattsUp just swapped in a new/used engine. Even if the seller's stated mileage of the engine is correct (118K), there's no indication of the maintenance history. The new/used engine seems to have a misfire that's causing the common cold start knock/rattle. There are many things that could be causing the misfire. Bad spark plug(s), bad ignition coil(s), faulty injector(s), and yes, a leaking head gasket. A lot of things need to get disconnected and re-connected in the course of an engine swap. It's entirely possible the misfire could be caused by something as simple as an ignition wire that's unplugged or not seated properly.

    I'll ask the question again: @WattsUp , are there any trouble codes? Particularly misfire codes?
     
  14. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Trouble codes are just opinions now, no one ever post them here anymore. Plug n pray.
     
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  15. WattsUp

    WattsUp New Member

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    @Orenj AND @Grit : you're both right, I have no way of knowing how many miles are actually on this thing or if they actually shipped the engine that I asked for. The website had umpteen engines with milage and location. The lowest milage happened to be the closest geographically. (conveniently? :rolleyes: Now you have me questioning everything I thought I knew... ::sarcasm::)

    I swapped out the plugs and coil packs with the ones that I put in my car about 3 weeks ago. All 4 plugs in that engine were pretty dark. My OE plugs at 230K miles were original to the car and looked better than these did when I replaced them. Once I swapped them out to see if that made any difference, the knocking went away after the usual 20 seconds or so. HOWEVER I walked around the car and it was smoking like cheech and chong. Light misty smoke rolling out with that lovely hint of glycol odor. I have not driven the car at all with the new motor and this was only the 2nd time starting it. I have contacted the company to file a warranty claim because they guaranteed everything inside to be sound. They need me to take it to a shop to run some tests to verify before they will send me another one or refund me. That is where I'm at right now.

    Thank everyone for your help. I may not be done with you yet on this issue but I really do appreciate the quick responses and the confidence you guys bring to the table.
     
  16. WattsUp

    WattsUp New Member

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    Also this morning I started to tear down my old motor to start the head gasket and check for extent of damage. This was always the plan since ::LONG STORY THAT YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT:: moving along now...

    I'm planning to replace the timing chain since i have to go into to do the head gasket anyways. Thoughts? is that typically a point of failure or not so much since its a chain?
    I got all the way to the head studs and was surprised to find the inverted star type head bolts... It looks like a 12pt driver but the only sockets that aren't TORX that look like that are called "triple square spline bits". Is that the right ones for doing this job? Anything else that I'm walking into that I should just turn and run now?
     
  17. Mdv55

    Mdv55 Active Member

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    Many more heat cycles expanding and contracting. Constant temps are better then running cooler, then heating up, cooling down etc...
     
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