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I learned something about Prius catalytic converters today...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by LoganAragon, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. LoganAragon

    LoganAragon Junior Member

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    Howdy PC,

    Occasional user here, I learned something about Prius/California Air Resources Board (CARB) catalytic converters today that I wanted to post for anyone else's edification that might find it useful. I'm sure there are those that already understand this, but I hope this topic hasn't be covered ad nauseum.

    Prius catalytic converters adhere to CARB emissions standards and are by far the strictest in the country. CARB catalytic converters have more "precious metals" in them and do a better job of scrubbing the harmful emissions (no crap!) so when you replace a Prius cat, it must be up to this same CARB standard and MOST ARE NOT! Obviously, there is the OEM route which can cost ~$2000 for the part alone, however, Magnaflow makes an aftermarket catalytic converter (MagnaFlow Direct Fit Federal Catalytic Converter 49752) that IS (supposedly) up to the CARB standard. Now, I trust Magnaflow's R&D on this, they are a large player in the aftermarket performance exhaust world (think old muscle cars) so much so that I just purchased one and will report back with its performance.

    I should also say I just replaced my cat a few months ago with one from ebay one and it was a complete waste of money (check engine light came back on within a few weeks) because I didn't understand about the CARB emissions standards. ANY aftermarket catalytic converter that doesn't explicitly say it will meet CARB standards is GOING to throw a check engine light in your Prius (or any car held to the CARB standards for that matter). I should also point out I can turn a wrench, but diagnosis is not my strong suit/I don't have a bidirectional scan tool, so I did take the car to a reputable mechanic and have him do the diagnosis (P0420, up stream O2 sensor is "hunting" between .1-.3 V and downstream sensor is steady around .8 V, IIRC). Also, this is not a fix for people actually living in california (Magnaflow won't even sell it to you.) Part of the CARB law/regulation that makes their emission standards so stringent also explicitly states that if you need a catalytic converter replacement in the state of california, is MUST be a OEM part, sorry.

    Find what you love and let it kill you.
    Logan
     
    #1 LoganAragon, Aug 18, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  2. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    That’s the practical situation in California, but not because of a regulation that requires OEM parts, as such. Rather, aftermarket catalytic converters must be approved by CARB for each application, and none has been approved for any Prius car. (See my my January posting about the regulations.)
    I’d be very interested to know how well it controls pollutants (CO, HC, NOx) over typical test cycles, and whether it actually allows the car to meet the California AT-PZEV standard, as opposed to just working well enough to meet the less-stringent federal standards and keep the engine control module from detecting a problem.

    As I understand it, the tricky thing about catalytic converters in gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles is keeping the converter at an operating temperature high enough for the oxidation and reduction reactions to take place, even though the engine doesn’t run continuously.
     
  3. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Cat thefts are pretty common post on this site especially in CA and London.
     
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  4. jamber

    jamber Junior Member

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    I also recently put an eBay cat on my prius because it had broken pieces on the inside of it. You could hear the rattling all times the car was on. There's no way that it adheres to CARB restrictions, and I drove it on a 5k mile roadtrip and am now in CA. How many miles did it take for your check engine light to come on for it? My engine burns oil like a 20 year old F150 so there's no way it would pass a smog check. I tried replacing the PCV Valve, cleaning the injectors, and replaced the spark plugs. I suspect the piston rings are bad considering none of that fixed it plus it makes an air releasing sound when accelerating. So I'll be replacing that in a couple months, for now I'm not registering it in CA. Also the state can suck it on the OEM part restriction that's definitely not happening.
     
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  5. gen2pria

    gen2pria Junior Member

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    a 2007 corolla catalytic converter will fit on our prius. I did it recently and no check engine light so it passed the smog test.
     
  6. LoganAragon

    LoganAragon Junior Member

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    Hi everyone,

    A) Sorry for going AWAL for a minute, it took a while to get my poop in a group. B) Good news everybody! I installed the Maganflow catalytic converter last weekend and yesterday my Prius passed the NM/Bernalillo County emissions test! So, we can at least say that the Magnaflow catalytic converters do a adequate job of cleaning up the exhaust, now we just have to wait and see how long they last. They come with a 5 year warranty, so I hope to at least get that. Now to reply to everyone individually.

    Very interesting Elektroingenieur, that makes sense in my experience. CA has a similar setup with firearms, individual firearms have to be on a CA approved list in order to be sold in the state. I have yet to read your January posting, but I will. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you how well it controls pollutants, other than it passed the local emissions test. NM/Bernalillo county does not give you quantified CO,HC,NOx readouts unless you fail the test. Or, more specifically, if you fail, they give you quantified readouts (don't ask me know I know) but if you pass, they just say pass. I was a little worried about your latter comment about keeping the converter up to temp as well, especially because I had to wait in line at the emissions place, all I can say is the tech plugged in the machine to the OBD2 port, turned off and restarted the car, pressed the gas pedal and the ICE ran for the duration of the test. I'm best guess is the car is smart enough to know its being tested and keeps the ICE running for exactly that reason. That or, it was nearly 90 degrees out yesterday and the ICE ran to keep the AC on. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

    Yeah, that's what I've heard. Just for reference, my local recycler have me $25/cat (the prius has two). Desperate times.

    I'm not exactly sure how many miles but less than 5000, maybe 500 miles. Maybe you're the lucky one, maybe mine didn't work because it needs MORE ratting pieces? Mine burns oil like crazy too (2-3 quarts/5000 miles) and I've tried the same cheap fixes as you and come to the same expensive conclusion. Adding oil every two weeks doesn't bother me as my main motivation is cost, not saving the planet. I agree the state is somewhat restrictive, just bear in mind all it takes is a visual inspection for someone to spot an aftermarket cat, so take your car to the laziest/most out of shape emissions testing tech you know of and bribe him with many, many donuts.

    Very good to know, thank you for contributing! Pray tell, did you us an OEM catalytic converter, new, used, aftermarket?
     
  7. Kactus

    Kactus Junior Member

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    hey logan
    thanks for the post. I had my converter stolen last night. I heard someone drilling or something while I was in bed but was too groggy to figure it out. anyway, I didn't see "prius" listed on magnaflow site? I will call them monday but just confirming u got yours there and it's still working out?

    cheers J
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    That grows on you. (y)
     
  9. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

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    What is $25/cat?
     
  10. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Ah... to be so young that catalytic converter knowledge excites you....
     
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  11. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    That wont work for you Kactus it has to the factory original cat because they physically inspect the cat in Ca and it must have the Toyota insignia and a specific part number on each of the 2 cats. Look at my pictures. Factory cat is ungodly expensive like $1500 plus installation and installation is not cheap because the SOB's chop the O2 sensor wires to boot. Those are the dangling wires under the car.

    Ca will fail an aftermarket cat.

    Go on youtube and search

    Prius Stolen

    Lots of good info about this issue. Its epidemic in Ca. London too..
     

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    #11 edthefox5, Nov 28, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  12. Kactus

    Kactus Junior Member

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    umm...thanks...I guess ;)
     
  13. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    sorry dude the cat theft is getting really bad in Ca.
     
  14. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

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    Not Prius theft, but my employer had four express vans where the converters were cut off Saturday night. It’s going to be about $1250 a van plus labor to put them back together. The problem is that the cats are on back order due to COVID-19. The other thing is that two of the vans already have 230k+ miles on them. But the converter thieves don’t care.
     
  15. blaisep

    blaisep Junior Member

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    I had no idea that they were valuable and took the cat from my 2006 to the dump!
    A few months ago, when I went to the stealer to get a cat for my 2008, the dealer told me about the thefts and asked if mine had been stolen!
    The joke was on me when I asked "Wth would steal a cat from underneath a car!?"
    (I live in the Santa Cruz Mountains, where life has pretty much frozen in 1978, except for the Internet)
    Now, the traction battery needs replacement and my wife wants me to scrap the car.

    Anyone in town need an OEM cat with 20 miles on it?
     
  16. blaisep

    blaisep Junior Member

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    I can vouch for this, CA will fail smog if you have an aftermarket cat.
    I can also vouch that DIY cat replacement is VERY easy, and you won't end up with a broken O2 sensor.
     
  17. golfmk681

    golfmk681 Active Member

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    MEEE I can't message you! Ugh Mine is dying.
     
  18. TiffHaddock

    TiffHaddock New Member

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    I’m interested! Lol
     
  19. robert mencl

    robert mencl Member

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    Well, sorry to folks who jave to pass cali emissions...I put aftermarket cats and pipe on my 04 Prius this fall, cost $114. My engine light has not come back on 3,000 miles later. 2 years ago our 200,000 mile Chevy pickup had a plugged cat, we got a $40. generic from Autozone and put that on, engine light has never come back on. About testing cat efficiency by reading the O2 sensors, way too complex! Just compare your cat inlet and outlet temperatures to see the real story.
     
  20. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    CAT theft is common because a recycler will give you something like $25 for them, while some muffler shops will give you about $250 (no questioned asked.)
    It's a myth that Prius converters have more "precious metals" in them. There is simply a higher demand for them because of a confluence of economic conditions like higher gas prices, moronic state laws, and certain policies that affect....."justice involved persons."
    In
    Ben Franklin "invented" the post office in 1775, and Algore "invented" the internet in the 1980s.
    This allows for a more or less thriving market that sometimes spills over into states that do not have moronic state laws.
    You have a G3. Those cats are in less demand now because most G3s either have catalytic converters that are still functioning - OR - they've already blown their head gaskets.....
    If you do not know how the EGR works in your car....you probably will not have to worry about passing a smog check pretty soon.

    The ones you get at the animal shelter.
     
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