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Gen 2 Fuel Pump Question...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by justlee, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. justlee

    justlee Junior Member

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    My 2005 died while idling to run the heater. My theory is that the fuel pump got hot because I was low on gas and the car was tilted towards the curb. I'm trying to find out if there is some kind of thermal protection in the fuel pump that could reset itself after it cools down? I was running the heater for about 15 minutes while parked at the curb trying to warm my feet and the engine stumbled and stopped like it ran out of fuel. The red triangle lit along with a bunch of other lights and the car wouldn't do anything when I tried to restart it. There was about 2 gallons of gas in the tank and the outside temperature was 37 degrees F. After about 45 minutes the car started and ran normal but the yellow Hybrid warning light was on. I drove 4 miles to a gas station and it took 8 gallons of gas to fill, then I drove 8 miles to home and the car was fine except for the check engine and Hybrid warning lights. A cheap code reader gave me code P3191 and I went to bed. The next morning the car started normal and no warning lights. I guess I'll erase the trouble code and just drive it and see if it keeps working? Any comments and suggestions would be highly appreciated! 170K miles on the car. Thanks!
     
    #1 justlee, Dec 2, 2020
  2. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Here is the workup for DTC P3191 : https://share.qclt.com/%E4%B8%B0%E7%94%B0%E6%99%AE%E7%91%9E%E6%96%AF%E5%8E%9F%E5%8E%82%E8%8B%B1%E6%96%87%E6%89%8B%E5%86%8Cpdf%E6%A0%BC%E5%BC%8F/Prius%20Service%20Manuals%202004/%E4%BF%AE%E7%90%86%E6%89%8B%E5%86%8C/04pruisr/05/2054m/cip3190a.pdf

    You may want to upgrade you 'scanner' to something that is fully hybrid compatible, many enthusiasts like to use a "mini-vci" cable and techstream (dealer technician diagnostic software) installed on a windows device.

    You might be able to get by using a simple OBD2 bluetooth adapter and an App like Dr Prius or Torque.
     
    #2 SFO, Dec 2, 2020
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I wonder if this might be overthinking. If it was low on fuel and parked at an angle, maybe there's no need for speculation about the fuel pump getting "hot". It may have just slurped air and the engine stalled.

    P3191 is pretty light on specifics, as trouble codes go. It tells you the engine didn't start.

    But if you filled up with fuel and the car is now driving without complaints, that might be all the specifics you need.
     
    #3 ChapmanF, Dec 2, 2020
  4. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Option one: keep driving and see how it does- either it works ok or it doesn't. Don't let the "guess gauge" go too low.

    Option two: invest time and money to see if the pump operates to specification. That could involve logging fuel trim data during heavy throttle test drive, performing fuel pressure and volume tests, even using a scope and amp clamp to view the pump's current waveform. If there's a problem and the wiring is ok then everything is part of the sealed non-serviceable fuel tank anyway. That assumes that was what caused the stall in the first place.

    The pump is kind of like a light. The ecm just turns it (the pump relay) on when it starts the engine. No thermal protection or feedback or anything fancy.

    Petsonally I'm with ChapmanF on this one - option one.


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #4 mr_guy_mann, Dec 2, 2020
  5. justlee

    justlee Junior Member

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    Thanks guys! Yep, going with option one and the car seems fine. It's just that my faith is shaken because I was in a place with no cell service and it would have been a cold walk for maybe a long ways. I just wonder what caused the triangle of death and why it went away. I'm really glad the car re-started after sitting and not moving, if the pump sucked air why did it restart? Maybe the bladder changed the shape of the tank as the car cooled down? Or as it warmed up which caused the stall? Yes, overthinking... I just don't like mysteries that can cause me serious problems! Technically speaking the car didn't leave me stranded, just paused! I fancy myself to be a good repairman but know almost nothing about this car that I've had for 2 years. I will learn the Prius quirks and count on this forum for help! Sometimes there is just no better time saver than other peoples experience when trying to fix a problem so I really value your guys responses! Maybe I'll hang onto my '81 240D for trips to remote places. Fuel pump not replaceable??? Shocking news to me! Has this feature been a problem for gen 2 owners or is the system good enough that the aftermarket hasn't developed a work around? I hope to get TechStream soon...
     
    #5 justlee, Dec 3, 2020
  6. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    RTOD can be caused by any serious fault with the car. Such as a HV system fault, lack of ICE function, or possibly a serious brake fault. Basically anything that could result in you having to walk instead of driving.
    The sealed bladder type fuel tank is a PIA for Gen2 owners. I get about 7 gallons refill on mine when it hits 1 bar. The usual problems with these are the fuel gauge sender wears out, or there is an evap problem (often due to overfilling resulting in gas leaking into the "void" space outside of the bladder).
    I haven't seen or read about many pumps failures. Hard to say what happened to yours without a "smoking gun".

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #6 mr_guy_mann, Dec 3, 2020
  7. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    When you see the red triangle of death first thing you should do is look at the hybrid charge behavior on the mfd since you were not moving it was probably in purple or red bar especially with the heater on as that will pull some current. Your way due for a failed hybrid battery anyway.

    The second thing you should do is make sure you have a good inverter coolant pump. Open the inverter coolant reservoir and with the car on look inside at the coolant with a flashlight it should be rippling like its being pumped at a good level. Mine looks like the fluid is boiling its moving so much. No moving fluid the pump has failed thats like #1 most common G2 failure.
     
    #7 edthefox5, Dec 4, 2020
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