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Why doesn't a Prime or other 110V charge EV not have ONLY a normal 110V inlet plug as best option?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by The Big Sleaze, Jan 2, 2021.

  1. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

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    NOTE TO EVERYONE BUT SLEAZE:
    Don't follow the advice of this guy.
    He's making things up and is full of it.


    I can't imagine how boring your life is if you actually asked that question of more than one electrician. If that's true that you used a wire spool that way, it should have resulted in your house burning down or the lights were awful dim. That's about 18 amps, and takes a pretty hefty conductor for a 100 foot cable.
     
  2. The Big Sleaze

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    Pops had to bury the GRX engine so it wouldn't kill again.


    My Prime is the "Pearl Blizzard" white metallic so I was toying with a "Mach 5" hood big red "M" and door circle and #5 paint. Or maybe just stick on magnets.
     
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The standard was developed before the Prime in order to have a safe, universal AC charging standard for all plug in cars to use. Toyota or somebody could develop their own charging system, but just means spending money to fix something that works, and already has suppliers making parts for.

    Yeah, Tesla has their own system. There wasn't a DC standard that was fast enough for them, and they opted to have one plug on the car for AC and DC charging. CHAdeMO was the only other DC standard at the time, and it had its own separate receptacle on the car. Tesla did make their system compatible with J1772, and provide an adapter with the cars.
    Upon introduction, higher trim Prius Primes had a locking something that wasn't available to the base. I don't recall if that something was the plug receptacle itself, or the receptacle lid.

    You'll have the issue I posted earlier, where the EVSE can't 'see' what type of cord has been plugged into the car. One of the safety things the EVSE is doing is monitoring the temperature of itself, the cable, and both plugs. It can't do that with some generic extension cable. Then Old Bear points out that the EVSE doesn't energize the cable until it establishes a connection to the car, and the car asks for electricity. With the EVSE in the car, whatever cable you use will be live as soon has it's plugged into the wall, and remain so after charging.

    There is also the consideration of how to handle Level 2 charging if the EVSE is built into the car. To save costs, a PHEV along the lines of a Prius Prime's range may only get a Level 1 EVSE standard.
    Those have an electrical system similar to a golf cart's; 48 volts max. Which is below the requirement for additional safety systems that even a non-plug hybrid has. They will also spend much of the charge time pulling less amperage than a plug in car will.
     
  4. The Big Sleaze

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    on commercial construction sites in SF Bay area you will have electricians coming around to see who got what plugged into their "spider box" temp-power, whether you want or not. Big issues are ANY cuts in insulation on cords and no tape on cords, and wire cage in front of any bulbs or glass on lights. Never been dinged for pulling too much power on a single cord. You CAN cut off the damage section of a cord and install a new end, but for some weird reason you aren't allowed to do that at the site and must be done "at home", amateur style at kitchen table, and brought back next day. Go figure.
     
  5. The Big Sleaze

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    What I'm understanding is there is no car charging specific important difference between a wall outlet with sketchy wiring and a sketchy extension cord (both not recommended) and a good outlet and/or good high rated (and correctly wired lol) cord for drawing the fairly high power for charging a Prime at 12amps. Buy a good "job site approved" cord and should be fine.

    Second part has me asking "surely you don't mean the male end of the EVSE (and any extension cord between EVSE and wall outlet) will remain charged with dangerous (or any) power if its is disconnected from wall but still plugged into car?". But I might use that to create an Urban Legend in my next script.
     
  6. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    You can learn all about car charging here. There are four modes. Mode 1—directly plugged in to the wall—is the least safe. The cord that comes with the Prius Prime is Mode 2. Commercial EVSEs are Mode 3. DC charging is Mode 4.

    Charging station - Wikipedia
     
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  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    o_O
    Plug a cable into a live receptacle, and that cable becomes live; that is energized.

    Plug the EVSE that came with the Prime into the receptacle, and it becomes live from the wall to the box in the cable. The cable from that box to the car is not live. Not even when plugged into the car. There is a dedicated use computer in that cable box. When plugged into the car, the first thing it does is establish a connection to the car's computer, and ensure the connections are good. That's why the cable has two additional wires in it.

    When the car says it is ready to charge, whether now or later on a timer, the EVSE computer turns on power to the car, and that cable becomes live. When the car says its done charging, power to that cable is turned off. During charging the EVSE monitors temperature along its length, from wall to car, and will shut things down if it gets too hot.

    With the EVSE is the car, the extension cable used for charging stays live the entire time it is plugged into the wall. A job site approved cable doesn't have a way to let the EVSE to monitor its temperature. If that outlet you thought was good actually isn't, and it and the cable plug start overheating, the EVSE will continue drawing power until a fire starts.
     
  8. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    This is mostly users helping users, not a crowd sourced fantasy site. I am putting you on ignore so I don't confuse you with someone actually wanting help.
     
    #48 JimboPalmer, Jan 3, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
  9. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Yeah, I'm pretty sure the horse died back on the first page and now it's a bloody pulp and still getting beaten. "Don't confuse me with the facts. I've already made up my mind." I just hope he doesn't actually try to implement his extra battery plan and get someone hurt or killed.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the good thing about doing mods in your mind is that they are easy, and always work out well.

    keep up the good work!(y)
     
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  11. Hicksite

    Hicksite Member

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    Fair enough, but how did you plan to have enough juice in the traction battery for 8 hours of engine off HVAC without using wall charging? By driving in charge mode?
     
  12. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Senior Member

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    IMHO, best to let this thread die in peace.
     
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  13. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    In the U.S., all charging stations use either J1772 or Tesla connectors, although I have seen some charging stations that have standard 125V outlets (in a locked box that is unlocked by activating the station) where you can plug in your EVSE.

    You can also use an app on an NFC-capable smartphone to activate a Chargepoint station.

    Or if all else fails, Chagepoint has an 800 number printed on the station that you can call to talk to a human to activate the station.
     
    #53 CharlesH, Jan 3, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
  14. The Big Sleaze

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    Not sure, never tried it myself yet, just heard from other Prime owner. Maybe it was very low setting, or just an exaggeration/expression. But being able to run HVAC for any extended time without running the ICE is a huge plus in my book. Heard the high trim Primes can turn on HVAC at given time or with smart phone so it can be comfy when you arrive.

    So I'm also wondering if any enterprising aftermarketers have come up with plan a nice slick looking roof rack mounted pretty big solar array, mostly for Primes since that would be the biggest market. When used to carry a kayak on roof racks one of the first things I noticed was how nice it was to have big overhanging shade, front and back, on hot sunny days. Sure a big super-size overhanging roof mounted solar panel (with a few air vents to keep it for over-stressing racks, and road holding LOL at high speed) could be a niffy feature. Then of course you gotta figure how to run the juice to the car's system.

    Big question no Toyota Service Dept will answer (if they even know).....

    Does HVAC run off 12v batt and if run long term does that mean big batt is keeping 12v batt charged?

    I'm assuming that no juice ever flows from 12v to big batt.

    So I guess unless you convert solar to 110v and run through big charging cable you will never "add miles", only maybe keep HVAC running, which makes adding solar no so attractive.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    tere aren't enough primes to make it worthwhile for an aftermarket co.

    but another easy mod for the intrepid dreamer...
     
  16. pghyndman

    pghyndman Active Member

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    Roof mounted solar arrays and additional storage capacity did not seem as viable as oversized fender mounted pinwheels, scavenging wind power... the faster you go the more power generated. Simply brilliant... I only hope those inept designers at Toyota don't rip me off!

    image14a.jpg

    My other suggestion is to use over-sized wheels/tires in the back and tiny wheels in front so as to constantly be going downhill (another brilliant idea).

    Sigh... put a fork in it already!
     
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  17. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    The HVAC compressor uses the big traction battery (both for cooling and heat pump heating). The HVAC fan runs on the 12V battery.

    Nothing flows from the 12V battery to the traction battery. The other way, yes, to charge the 12V battery.
     
  18. The Big Sleaze

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    Fisker debuts $37,500 electric SUV with a solar roof - The Verge $37K sounds very cheap for all EV AND solar roof.
    Pretty sure the solar isn't a realistic means of charging an EV for average daily use, but both Tesla and Hynudia make EVs with solar panels.
    But IMO 100% EV ain't ready for "Prime Time"(pun intended), so I'd sorta think solar roof would be a good fit for plug in hybrids like Prime, even if its a bit of gimmick, because Prime has lots of gimmicks, especially give the Prime's ability to use big batt to run HVAC (AC most important IMO) and the solar roof could keep big batt topped off on hot sunny day.

    In other Prime news, shipments of Rav4 Primes have increased to 3x first promises during last quarter and expected to continue to ramp up, according to Torque mag.

    Wouldn't surprise me if solar roof offered as option for Rav4 Prime next year or two.
     
  19. BillKoz

    BillKoz Junior Member

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    Amazon.com: Fits Toyota Prius Prime. The Amazing EVDOUBLER is a Low Cost Upgrade Adapter, Just Plug it in, Charges Fast Like a Level 2 Electric Vehicle Car EVSE Charger. Needs NEMA 14-30/50 Outlet: Automotive
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    very nice, but a member here sells one for half the price