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Trading in a 2020 Prius Prime for a 2020 Leaf... Should I?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Salamander_King, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Sarge

    Sarge Senior Member

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    Agree completely and to be clear I am not trying to talk you out of it, just sharing our experience in owning an (older) Leaf, which may or may not be relevant. Anytime you can change for a “newer” vehicle (not model year but in-service use) for zero cost due to rebates/incentives (or even save some money) it is certainly worth considering, just make sure you are not letting go of an efficient and rock solid reliable vehicle for one that may be less-so.... but ultimately, I don’t think there is a bad choice here, there are different advantages on both sides.

    Good luck with the decision! :cool:
     
  2. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    We all do something we regret in life. Trading in a prius for a Nissan will be your one thing.
     
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  3. Storm88000

    Storm88000 Active Member

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    As someone who knows someone who owned a Leaf, if you can foot the bill and don’t get “range anxiety” - do it. Just remember you’ll likely need a second vehicle to drive for very long trips especially if you are in the northeast or southeast.
     
    #63 Storm88000, Dec 26, 2020
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  4. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    FWIW, are you familiar with Matt Ferrell’s YouTube channel “Undecided”? He’s talked about road tripping in his Tesla Model 3 from his home base in the Boston vicinity. In particular, talking about visiting his parents, road-tripping from Boston; I can’t recall to where right off, but he seems to find it no issue.

    I’m not sure whether these videos in particular address that concern, but these are at least broadly along those lines anyway:



     
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  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thanks for the videos. Never seen his video, but they are very informative, although I felt a bit of bias toward his beloved Tesla. I watched both of them. The impression I got from the videos kinda confirmed what I always have thought.
    1. If you want to do a long interstate trip in a BEV, thenTesla SuperCharger is the best or only way in some cases. DCfast charge network although coming along is still way behind.
    2. But even with Tesla (model3), computer glitches can happen, the charging station may be few and far between in some areas or it may be inoperative or broken, making BEV trips very frustrating.

    As for using DCfast (CHAdeMO) in our region, you can check yourself at PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You There just aren't any charge stations in the NE side of my state. In fact, for me, crossing the border to Canada would be the nearest. But the border remains to be closed for now, and my destination is always in the opposite direction. Tesla has a few extra Supercharger stations along I95, but after seeing the video you provided about the incident of the unresponsive computer screen on Model 3, I am now even more convinced that Tesla is not for me. Again, I would not buy a car that can not be serviced locally. And if I get LEAF, I have no intention of taking it onto the interstate trips. So, the points are moot.

    upload_2020-12-26_9-0-57.png
     
    #65 Salamander_King, Dec 26, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
  6. triggerhappy007

    triggerhappy007 Active Member

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    I traded in my 17 Prime for a Leaf 2 years ago. I just replaced it with the Longer Range one last month so I say go for it. You can probably get by on level 1 charging if only 40 miles a day. I wouldn't invest in the wiring now until you see how you do on level 1.
     
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  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Update: After doing the negotiations for trading in my 10 mo old 2020 Prius Prime to purchase a new 2020 Leaf (SV or S Plus), I came to the conclusion that I really don't need a daily driver for myself right now. I have been driving my PP only once a week for ~40 miles for some weekly errands last 10 months. I am not likely to go back to daily commuting routines for foreseeable future. I can use our second car, Pathfinder Hybrid for the errands. I have been offered the trade-in price on the 2020 PP from dealers I was negotiating with, but as it turned out Carvana offered me the best price over the dealers. Since I am not getting a new car at this time, the highest offer is naturally the best offer. The only problem was that there was no Carvana hub in our state, so I had to drive down to MA to drop off the car.

    The deal was a very easy online transaction. No visiting dealer's lot or meeting with sale reps. The tow truck showed up at the pick-up location then I had to sign a few papers, and he took the car away. The payment goes to my bank in 2 business days.

    I am going to put the proceeds of the sale into my investment account and let it grow for a while. If and when I am ready to purchase my next car, which is most likely to be a BEV but could be PHEV again, then I should be ready to pull a trigger on short notice. I will be watching both LEAF and Rav4 PRIME deals and availability. But by the time I need another car, there may be more choices to pick from.

    Thanks for the advice given on this thread. I will likely ask for more advice when it is time for picking my next car.

    Screenshot 2021-01-01 at 10.16.18 AM.png
     
    #67 Salamander_King, Jan 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
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  8. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Senior Member

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    Thanks for the update. IMHO, it didn't make sense to trade a car that you didn't really need for one that you also didn't really need but would depreciate faster than the PP. I plan to sit back and wait for Toyota to make enough RAV4 Primes so I don't have to kiss their nice person to buy one.
     
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  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, RAV4Prime would be very nice. But two problems. 1. Currently not available in the local dealers. 2. Toyota is not offering any incentive like PP. However, since I made ~$4000 net gain for the sale of my 2020 PP. And, in addition, any investment gain from the proceeds and savings on not keeping an extra car will give me quite a bit of cash stashed away for my next purchase. So that will help when there are some RAV4Primes in local lots to purchase. If RAV4Prime can be found, I will likely trade in the Pathfinder Hybrid for RAV4Prime before I pick-up my daily drive. Pacifica Plug-in and the upcoming Escape PHEV are other possibilities for replacing PathHy.
     
    #69 Salamander_King, Jan 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
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  10. Sarge

    Sarge Senior Member

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    Congrats on the wise decision! It is an excellent conclusion to come to, and not an easy one to give up the convenience. However you are absolutely right that most people really do not need two vehicles these days since many are working from home. I have thought about the same, but unfortunately public transit in our area is non-existent as an alternative, and though we drive little these days, I do need a normal range vehicle for my job (charging infrastructure is not quite there yet in Toronto either to rely on a BEV alone, IMO), and if we let the Leaf go we will take a beating on selling/trade (not to mention our only vehicle remaining with high mileage), particularly since EV rebates are non-existent in Ontario any more, it would be expensive to get back in with another BEV. Oh, and also my wife would surely never give up her car, LOL. So, status quo it is for us! o_O
     
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  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, no public transportation for us either. We are not city dwellers. The closest store in the nearest town is 10 miles away. My workplace does provide bus service for employees, but I still have to drive 5 miles to the bus stop. It is essential to have at least one very reliable car for our daily transportation needs. But for now, since I am working from home 100%, I do not need my daily drive. The PathHy we purchased used last year is more or less my wife's car now but it is used for hauling stuff for our backyard mini-farm. It has been driven ~600 miles/mo or ~7300miles/yr in the past 21 months. This will increase by ~160miles/mo. I wish I could have kept just PP and get rid of the PathHy, but PP just does not have the ability to haul bales of straws, bags of animal feeds, and once a month bulk purchase of the groceries. Besides, like your situation, my wife is not going to give up her car... That is unless we buy a nicer car, such as the new Rav4Prime or Pacifica PHEV to replace it for her. lol

    It's going to cost a bit more on gas, and not as green as PP only household. But saving on the annual tax and insurance by getting rid of newer PP is far more economical and more practical. If I don't go back to the daily commuting routine this year, I will replace the PathHy with said PHV by the end of the year using a $7500 tax credit. If I do go back to daily commute before the end of the year, I will get a smaller BEV or PHEV. I still have plenty of time... as long as the PathHy continues to be reliable.
     
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  12. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Salamander_King thank you for posting about your experience selling your vehicle to Carvana. That is a great option for selling your used vehicle! I didn't know about that option.

    One thing about the current situation and the pandemic is the many options that the consumer has now to navigate the car buying/selling experience.

    Believe Car Dealers are going to be less and less able to hold Car Buyers hostage.

    It is a wonderful change where through the internet the Car Buyer is in complete charge and the Dealers had better march to his tune if they want to complete the sale.
     
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  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    As a note, I could have traded in my car to purchase a used vehicle Carvana had in stock. I did not consider that option. But had I taken that option, they charge $599 for delivery of the vehicle to the door, even to my remote location. What I am not sure is if they could also have picked up my car at the same time or not. Still, if you are considering selling a car and trading in for a used vehicle, they do have a very good inventory. It is a bit tricky to purchase a car without seeing it before closing, but they give something like 7 days to return the car if you don't like it. Also, for my state, buying a car with a trade-in will reduce the sales tax on the car purchased. For my deal that would have been meant another $1300 saving if I traded-in.
     
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  14. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    Past owner of Leaf here. I love the car. One big drawback though is the poor engineering behind the battery cooling. It's inferior to Bolt and I presume also the Prius Prime--and way behind the Tesla. The major ramification of this is that the battery degrades more quickly on the Leaf than those other vehicles. I know this from personal experience, as well as by looking at EV data from commercial fleets--which is part of my regular day job. I can't explain why, but I still love that car nonetheless.
     
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  15. Sarge

    Sarge Senior Member

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    Out of curiosity, what year was your Leaf and how fast did your battery degrade? We have a 2016 with the 30kwh battery with 65k Km (~40k mi) over a period of a month shy of 5 years, and we have lost just one capacity bar so far, which I think is reasonable, though I expect the second to disappear any day... what was your experience?

    (I don’t mean to derail the thread, but it seems kinda concluded anyway... :D)
     
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  16. ClemsonSteve

    ClemsonSteve Active Member

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    For me, it comes down to range anxiety. Or perhaps I should say, lack of range flexibility. Sometimes we decide to make an additional trip--like: "hey let's go to the winery." With the ICE, no problem. Until charging stations are available in a robust way--I will always have an ICE.
     
  17. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    It was a 2011. The battery capacity was down about 40% after five years--although I probably could have down a better job of managing the charge cycle.

    I do remember that I could only drive from Walnut Creek to San Mateo if I fully charged the car and drove at 53 mph on highway--making many new friends along the way of course.

    IIRC, Nissan offered a discounted replacement for that year's (and a few following years') battery using an improved battery, which is probably stock in your model year I assume.

    Here's some good news: Leaf outperforms Focus EV. This is a slide from an analysis I did in 2019.
     
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  18. triggerhappy007

    triggerhappy007 Active Member

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    Yeah, new 40 and 62 kWh batteries are lasting much longer than the first generation. There are some 2018s and 2019s with over 100,000 miles and still have not lost a bar.

    I'd like to know more about your Focus EV vs Leaf analysis. I had a 2015 Focus EV.
     
  19. Pedal Logic

    Pedal Logic Active Member

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    My company sells range-increasing technology to municipal and state fleet operators for fueled and electric vehicles. These government customers often send us before/after data to verify performance gains. Here's the Leaf vs Focus results that we saw on the most recent analysis.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Sarge

    Sarge Senior Member

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    Sorry, I missed this message last week... thanks for the reply. Your decision makes a lot of sense, I would have done the same in your situation. :)

    Hopefully by the time things start getting back to “normal” and you are ready for another daily driver, the RAV4 Prime will be more readily available. (y)

    Cheers!
     
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