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Hybrid cruising speed

Discussion in 'Prime Technical Discussion' started by Henrik Helmers, Apr 7, 2021.

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  1. Henrik Helmers

    Henrik Helmers Active Member

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    Isn’t this due to the Prius using the ICE directly to propel the vehicle at high speeds? I imagine the Prius is most efficient when the ICE is used without MG2. I wish it would help me put it in that state more often.
     
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    A silly story that explains M/G 2 and M/G 1 and heretical mode

    How the PSD is like a Differential
     
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  3. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    I don't think there's a single "most efficient" mode for the Prius. I shoot for a strategy that maximizes my gasoline MPG and miles/kWh. So far it seems that if there has to be a choice, EV is better used on the highway and HV for city driving. I think it works because there is less acceleration on the highway where you can just maintain a constant speed far longer than you can in city driving. I use HV to accelerate to highway speed or to climb steep hills, but switch to EV to maintain speed on relatively level ground or downhill. I am able to eke out an average of 8.4 mi/kWh and 135 mpg over 2,000 trips of approximately 80 miles with this strategy without access to a charger except at the beginning of the trip, and that's with going down and back up a 2,000-foot elevation difference each trip.
     
    #23 PiPLosAngeles, Apr 21, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    How would they enforce that, know what mode you’re in??
     
  5. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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  6. Henrik Helmers

    Henrik Helmers Active Member

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    Under ideal conditions the ICE would surely run most efficiently without any conversion taking place, i.e. all the energy going directly into the wheels. This is counter to the thinking "use EV on the highway and HV in the city", as the ICE would more often be unmatched to the wheel speed in city driving.

    In practice I see what you see, fuel economy is great when driving around the city in HV mode.
     
  7. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    In a Prius, the engine only ever assists M/G 2, it cannot power the tires alone.
     
  8. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    This is true. But in that condition, there is no conversion taking place with energy going to or from the battery. So losses are at a minimum.
    Here's one of @john1701a's videos where you can see that sweet spot and how elusive it is. I don't think he was trying for max efficiency here. Watch the dancing ball in the top right corner of the Hybrid Assistant part of the screen. The right column shows energy to & from the battery and when the ball is in the circle, that's the sweet spot.
     
  9. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    That's what I mean about efficiency being dependent on the definition: If it's defined as minimal losses in conversion of fuel - electricity or gas - to motive force, it is unlikely that you will be operating at minimum emissions per mile/km. The reason being that electricity and gasoline have different emissions profiles, and for some reason everyone counts emissions of electrical generation and transmission but does not include emissions of crude oil extraction, refining to gasoline, and transport.

    If your goal is minimum emissions for a given trip, the strategy is more complex. On trips that can be completed on EV, one should use EV exclusively, and likewise on trips that exceed the EV range and the opportunity to charge is present. If your trip will necessitate the use of the ICE, minimal emissions can be had by using ICE for strong acceleration and uphill climbs and EV for cruising speed and downhill. It's even more complex than that, but that's probably beyond the scope of this thread.
     
    #29 PiPLosAngeles, Apr 22, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
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  10. phlack

    phlack Junior Member

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    The best I've ever done is 7.2 mi/kWh, and that' going at low (30-40mph) speeds on flat terrain at air temperatures just under the need for A/C with no traffic lights hit...and a slow cruise in N into my already-open garage!

    What you're saying is pretty much against what everyone else is saying to do.
    HV is efficient wherever you go, of course, it's great. But when I'm on the highway in EV mode, I'm maybe hitting 4 mi/kWh. And EV mode won't get your very far on the highway, unfortunately.
    Or is that 8.4 on the downhill portion?
     
  11. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    It would be fairly difficult to drive 160,000 miles all downhill, don't you think? When it's actually downhill I get infinity mi/kWh, usually negative because I'm in regen.

    If you're getting 4 mi/kWh on the highway and it's not uphill you're either driving too fast or slowing down and accelerating repeatedly, both will absolutely destroy your efficiency. The difference between driving 65 and driving 80 isn't 25%, it's like 75%. If I can drive 60-65 behind a truck I can get almost 6 mi/kWh on relatively level highway. I also do not use the cruise control in any kind of traffic because the way it's programmed it's always slamming on the brakes and accelerating. It wastes a ton of energy.

    Don't take my word for it. Test it for yourself. Make the same drive using EV as the owner's manual suggests a few times, and then make the same drive a few times using EV only for times when you can keep the HSI indicator below about 33% (which is cruising on relatively level street/highway or downhill). See yellow arrow below:

    [​IMG]

    If you have to push the gas harder than that use HV.