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Texas EV Tax: Please Comment

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by mr88cet, May 26, 2021.

  1. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    This is for those of us who live in Texas:

    I wrote to Rep Terry Canales, who’s apparently behind the best-developed EV-tax bill for TX. I recommend all of us from Texas voice your opinion at Texas House of Representatives : E-Mail Rep. Canales, Terry

    FWIW, below is what I wrote to him (and I’ll probably send this to my own representative too):

    I recently heard about your efforts to devise a tax on Electric Vehicles. The EV drivers I know agree that it’s reasonable for us to help pay for road maintenance.

    This is a complex problem though, and the proposal I’ve heard sounds more like an *EV penalty* than a road-use tax!

    The tax *should not be a fixed amount*! If the tax assessed can be increased for those who drive more than 9000 miles/year, then clearly it *can be* based upon miles driven. It should therefore be *proportional* to the number of miles driven, not a fixed amount.

    Remember also that Tax Law is not solely about raising revenue; it is also about encouraging good-citizen and good-consumer behavior, in this case, fuel and energy efficiency. Pure, non-plug-in hybrids *absolutely should not* be taxed other than by their gasoline usage! Their drivers *should* pay less tax because they are using precious energy resources *more efficiently*.

    Similarly, more-efficient EVs, as assessed by their “MPGe” rating, should pay lower taxes than more charge-guzzling EVs!

    There is also the complication of how to tax *plug-in hybrid vehicles* — partly charged from the power-grid and partly powered by gasoline. If you tax them as an EV, and then tax them again for gasoline they consume, that would be extremely unfair.

    Thank you for considering all concerns. You are welcome to reply if you would like to discuss the topic!
     
    #1 mr88cet, May 26, 2021
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what does terry drive?
     
  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Virginia has gone to registration system where anyone with vehicle over 25 MPG owes extra annual fee for avoiding pump taxes.
    Sort of a poor man's miles driven tax. So I owe extra annual $40 fee for owning a 40 MPG hybrid, but that amount is going up as Dems ramp up state fuel taxes.
     
  4. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    (FYI: Autocorrect originally clobbered the URL for Rep. Canales, but I corrected it now. That is, if you tried it earlier and it didn’t work, it should now.)
     
  5. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    In other words, you are penalized for using a more efficient and less polluting gasoline-powered vehicle. It seems to me that the most fair system for road infrastucture taxes would be based both on the weight of the vehicle (heavier vehicles put more wear on roads) and number of miles traveled, not on the the amount of gasoline or other fuel used. States that have regular inspections as part of their annual registration would already have this information. Of course, I could see that there would be a problem for those who live in those tiny states in the East and regularly cross state boundaries, to determine how many miles were traveled in which state. Putting GPS trackers in cars just isn't going to be accepted.
     
    #5 CharlesH, May 26, 2021
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
  6. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    That makes sense assuming that the only consideration in Tax Law is revenue, in this case for repairing road damage. As I mentioned in my original post, I think that tax law is also about incentivizing good-citizen and good-consumer behavior. So, I think I charging by the gallon (or equivalent) balances both revenue and such incentives very well.
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    good citizenship in texas would be driving a coal roller, no?
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Roads are designed for mutli-ton trucks. The difference in weight between different passenger car classes isn't going to lead to much more damage by the heavier one. Weather might do/ more damage than the cars.

    The miles in other states generally aren't high enough to be concerned with. The system already gets by with people just crossing the border to get cheaper gas here. So road taxes go to Jersey for people driving mostly in Pa.
    A state going to a mileage rate for taxes could keep the fuel tax in place. I'd suggest having at least two two mileage rates in that case, with a higher one for plug ins to account for them not paying tax on fuel.
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a progressive state/politician is going to use the tax to move people off fossil fuels. a conservative is likely to lean the other way.
    it's not a question of fairness. that's pretty obvious throughout the history of taxation
     
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  10. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Perhaps a certain type of Texan, not very much like me…
     
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  11. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Senior Member

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    Personally, I would not waste my time thinking that there was any way that I could influence a politician to write or change a tax law in my favor. Reminds me when I once asked a Chinese friend of mine why we don't see many Chinese in politics. He replied: "We Chinese treat all politicians equally - with an equal amount of contempt."
     
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  12. satxprime

    satxprime Member

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    I'm just going to continue writing "Ban cars" in the comments of every article and advocating for carbon taxes until I die.
     
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  13. satxprime

    satxprime Member

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    BTW ban cars.
     
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  14. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    "Fairness" has different meanings.
    As hybrid drivers, we are looking for "technology neutral" taxes. In other words, we should not owe extra fees just because the word "hybrid" is in the vehicle description. Taxing either by per-mile or per-gallon, is "fair", although we would prefer per gallon, since we are driving fuel efficient cars.

    Then we get into the sticky issue of plug-ins, as far as how to define an equivalent road use fee, and if public policy should favor plug-ins and/or fuel efficient cars.
     
    #14 wjtracy, Jun 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
  15. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    And of coarse all these taxes ignore the damage caused by making more exhaust (pollution )
    The congestion, extra parking space, and extra asphalt required by larger rigs
    The supply side pollution and spills caused by using more fuel.
    And have no positive influence on moving freight to more efficient mechanisms
     
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  16. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    That only proves that you do not know very much about carbon throughput.....or the purpose of taxes.

    I do not have any children that go to our local public schools or, for that matter any relatives that go to ANY public schools.
    However (comma!!!!) I pay property and income taxes for..........(wait for it!).........schools, and you know what?
    I don't complain about it much because the nation that I live in is BETTER OFF for actually having a network of schools (even the ones here in the US. :unsure: )

    It could be even be argued that I do not even cause any wear on our local school system, and I most CERTAINLY didn't even get any tax kickbacks for not having a child in my local school system, even though the number of children that I raised is much closer to being "carbon neutral" than all of these daffy people with crotch fruit that I'm supposed to have to support and pay for......BUT(!!) that's a daffy argument, right?


    I've always said......EVs will have reached full viability when they stop getting rich person tax breaks and start getting taxed at the same rate as the 99-percenters.....

    .....kinda like wireless Priuses are NOW.

    Because.......like mileage?
    OPINIONS will vary. :)
     
    #16 ETC(SS), Jun 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i thought tesla ran out of credits?
     
  18. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    And he is a Democrat. It makes no sense.
     
  19. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I always start my letters (to elected officials) by defining Hybrid, Plug-in Hybrid, and BEV. I am pretty sure most elected officials do not know the differences very well. I think I saved one or two states from taxing hybrids but I 've lost the battle in many of the Red States. Now I am losing in the Blue states too, who snub hybrids as well.

    Virginia called my bluff and (quietly, without public awareness/debate) put an extra annual fee on all vehicles over 25 MPG, with plug-ins slated for big state tax rebates. But the Dems have not found the money yet for that. Soon though. Actually the state is flush in excess tax income with Dems in charge, but for some reason they are not yet giving that excess money to plugin tax credits, but that's what they want to do with it.

    @ETC(SS) actually ran for Governor here once, but sadly got no votes.
     
    #19 wjtracy, Jun 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
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  20. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Tesla passed the 200K car limit that cut the $7500 tax credit to buyers 2+ years ago It cut in half a couple of times then went away. But Tesla, the company, still gets credits as the maker and sells those to car makers that do not produce the required number of zero emission vehicles.

    Mike