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Personal historical perspective on the 2018 HyCam

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by CamryDriver, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. CamryDriver

    CamryDriver Active Member

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    My 2018 HyCam is the latest in a series of vehicles owned by my family designed to get good fuel economy. The first was a VW Rabbit Diesel car.

    The Rabbit Diesel was an awful car. The thing shook like it was going to fall apart, especially after a cold start. It was also horribly under powered at 50-55 HP. Zero to 60 in 19 seconds. A gas engine would have helped but the car would still have been a tinny econobox utterly devoid of convenience features. The car did get good mileage, I remember it being around 50 MPG, however Wikipedia says more like 36 MPG. For as long as we had the German made car it was reliable.

    We did not keep the Rabbit Diesel for long. It was traded on a VW Rabbit Diesel pickup truck that was made in the USA. It had essentially similar features to the car, except of course it was a truck (sort of). The big differences were that the truck got far worse mileage and was horribly unreliable as well. That those were the only 2 good things about the car version leaves me with absolutely nothing good to say about the truck version. I suppose it was better than walking.

    During the same time period we also had a Volvo 240 Diesel. I really liked the Volvo as it was solidly built and somewhat prestigious. It handled good, the tires lasted forever and it got decent mileage for such a big sturdy car (36 MPG as I recall). The engine was far smoother than the one in the Rabbit and it made decent (not great) power (looks like around 80 HP), although it didn't really like to rev much. The trouble with the Volvo was that they didn't make the top of the engine strong enough to withstand the high compression a Diesel generates so the car was in the shop a lot getting new head bolts and gaskets. This vehicle would also have been better with a gas engine.

    My first foray into the world of good fuel economy was a Honda Civic Hybrid with a manual transmission. The Honda was a little under powered at 93 HP but compared to the Diesels in my past 93 HP seemed just fine, at least when driving alone with no extra weight in the car. By modern standards a Civic is a bit of an econobox but it was darn near luxurious compared to the old VW. The Honda got great mileage and was very reliable. The Honda was my favorite car, until...

    I got a 2018 HyCam. The Camry is solid gold compared to these older vehicles. The mileage is as good as the best of them. I anticipate high reliability (fingers crossed). The comfort and convenience is top notch. The Camry is the only vehicle in this list that has an automatic style transmission, all the others needed to be shifted manually. The Camry's 208 HP is more than double what any of the other vehicles had! A friend of mine has a Prius which he loves but he says you don't give anything up with the Camry and it is true. The Camry is just a fantastic car, especially in this historical perspective.
     
    #1 CamryDriver, Aug 14, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    we had a rabbit in the early 80's. horrible vehicle, probably the worst i've ever owned, and i've owned a lot.
    never bought another vdub.
     
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  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I have been considering CAMRY hybrid.
    Looks like interior space is a little smaller thas Prius, so I feel like it is a sedan-version Prius.
    Meanwhile Honda Civic Hatchback looks like a non-Hybrid ICE Prius, that I have always suggested for Toyota to make.
    Honda shows huge space for the Civic Hatchback which I am currently skeptical they are playing around with volume data.

    Did Camry get smaller over the last 10-12 years?
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    camry has gotten bigger iirc. but the hybrid trunk started out quite small in gen 1, got better in gen 2, and is quite large in gen 3, though no doubt still smaller than non hybrid.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I learned to drive manual in a 1980 diesel Rabbit. The original owner had installed a 5 speed in it.
    The 'compact' car models here have been actual midsize for some time now. The Corolla sedan, which would have less wiggle room for volume measurements, is also big now. Almost Camry big on the inside.

    The Camry has grown less through the years than others. The Accord is now in the large size category; bigger than the Avalon.
     
  6. CamryDriver

    CamryDriver Active Member

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    The current version and pricing of the Accord came out several months after I purchased the Camry. The Accord seems like it would be worth a look. If I read correctly the drive-line is a series hybrid with a clutch that allows for 3 distinct modes of operation. It can drive with the ICE completely disconnected in EV mode, it can operated with the ICE connected to a generator in series hybrid mode and finally the clutch can engage the ICE and provide a purely mechanical connection from the engine to the wheels. It is rated 47 MPG which isn't bad at all for a large car.

    I'm a big fan of Toyota's HSD or THS or whatever they are calling it today. I like that the Toyota is beltless, bandless, and (mostly) clutchless. Actually the Toyota does have a clutch for smoothness but it is a special clutch that does not have a through-out. I lack the words to describe it since it is dissimilar to other clutches... Looks like it is called a "dampener".

    I generally trust Honda but I think I trust Toyota's batteries and HSD a bit more. Hard to say which car I would have picked if the current Accord was available. Still I'm very pleased with the Camry.
     
  7. CamryDriver

    CamryDriver Active Member

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    Do you know if it was German or American made? Our American made VW just fell apart while the German made car was reliable if nothing else.
     
  8. CamryDriver

    CamryDriver Active Member

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    So I wanted to compare my complaints about the Camry to my complaints about previous vehicles.

    Camry:
    Don't like the reflections from the hood and dash.
    Don't like the limits they put on EV mode.
    Don't like the GPS program.

    Volvo:
    Nice car but the engine tears itself apart.
    A little underpowered.
    Mileage not that good by modern standards.
    Fuel would gel up.

    VW truck:
    Horribly underpowered.
    Engine shakes like it is about to blow a rod.
    Fell apart, literally. Stuff would just fall off!
    Mileage not that good.

    VW car:
    Horribly underpowered.
    Engine shakes like it is about to blow a rod.
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't. what year did they start making them here? i want to say ours was a mid 70's, but not sure.
     
  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    VW produced Rabbits and trucks in the Westmoreland Pennsylvania plant starting in 1978 for model year 1979. I can't remember when they stopped, but it would have been mid 80s.
     
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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my memory is foggy. we owned it in the early 80's, bought it used. can't remember the year or mileage, but i was constantly repairing it.
    and, it was a rust bucket. but that was true of many cars of the era.
     
  12. CamryDriver

    CamryDriver Active Member

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    Oh man, our neighbors had a couple 1st or 2nd gen Honda Civics and they just disappeared into a pile of rust. One had a tiny spot on the rear hatch that just grew and grew in a perfect circle until it swallowed the whole car. It didn't take long at all for those cars to go from looking brand new to being rust heaps.
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Don't know about Germany, but Japan doesn't use road salt for snow and ice. It's one of those resources they lack. So having to deal with was a new thing we their car companies started selling in North America.
     
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Nope. 2002 and 2018 were the two big size increases. The current Corolla feels slightly larger than the 97-01 Camry.
     
  15. CamryDriver

    CamryDriver Active Member

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    Actually the Hybrid battery is under the rear seat so the trunk is full size with a spare and fold down seats. Those were big pluses compared to other Hybrid cars of the day.

    The Hybrid Fusion's trunk was all jacked up. Terrible execution from Ford.

    The older Sonata put the battery where the spare goes. Perfect spot, unless you wanted a spare, which I did.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yeah, but that was 3 years ago :D
     
  17. Little Jack

    Little Jack New Member

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    Bought a new VW Rabbit in '79. Had it for 18 years until the rear shock mounts were too rusty to trust. I put a control pressure regulator, fuel pump and brakes in the Rabbit. Other than the rust issue it was reliable. I thought it was fun to drive and got about 30 mpg.
    I bought a VW Golf diesel in 2001 that was probably my favorite car of any I've owned. Other than doing normal routine maintenance, that car was dead on reliable. After 19 years of great service a mechanic did a poor timing belt job and destroyed the engine. That episode lead me to buy my 2021 Camry hybrid. I love the Camry, but just wanted to interject that some of us have a had a good stint with VWs.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    glad to hear it, you hit the lottery twice! :D

    i had one vdumb, lesson learned the hard way :rolleyes:
     
  19. CamryDriver

    CamryDriver Active Member

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    Do you know if your vdubs were German made? Our Rabbit car was reliable even if it was a rattletrap devoid of even a smidgen of luxury.

    It was the USA made VW truck that just fell apart. An early nail in the coffin for domestically produced vehicles in my family.

    The Mazda 626 was the final nail. After years of putting up with various issues on domestically produced vehicles dad got a Mazda. On first glance it did not seem as solid as the vehicles we were accustomed to but the 626 just ran and ran with no issues. It outlived my dad.

    My mom won't buy anything but a Mazda now.

    I expanded my range to include Japanese and Korean brands.

    We might buy American next time, my wife likes the Challenger. Trying to talk her into a BRZ, 86 or Stinger instead.
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Since this has been revived, that Volvo 240's diesel engine was supplied by VW.

    A plus for the Jetta wagon in the '90s was that it was German made while the Sedan came from the US or Mexico.