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My Major Surgery saga on my 2013 Prius V.

Discussion in 'Prius v Technical Discussion' started by gromittoo, Jun 30, 2021.

  1. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Over the years, I've noticed very, very few mistakes or omissions in the Toyota docs—they seem to be pretty darn carefully edited.

    But there are those few cases, like this one, where the difference between knowing what the necessary steps are, and not knowing what they are, makes all the difference in the world. :)
     
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  2. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    Just need some pipe cleaners and carb cleaner for the manifold. U could use a power washer but be careful....or the car wash
    Power Washer for the EGR Cooler..... Machine Shop wouldn't know what to do......
     
  3. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Latest Status (updated):
    5 data points with a cleaned EGR Cooler and EGR, but still dirty Intake manifold:
    #1 - 20.56
    #2 - 15.68
    #3 - 15.60
    #4 - 15.66
    #5 - 15.63 <-- New data point

    What I find interesting is that ignoring the first data point, the value is a lot more stable than it was before any cleaning. I should point out that the final data point was entirely my wife driving to work on the turnpike., and not my stop and go Uber driving.

    Before any cleaning:
    Average: 15.16 kPa; 1 Standard Deviation is 0.35 (+/- 2.0 %)

    Partial Cleaning (ignoring first data point):
    Average: 15.64 kPa; 1 Standard Deviation is 0.035 (+/- 0.2%)

    I feel that ignoring the first data point is valid, since the EGR system may have needed "re calibration" with a sudden increase in available flow. I find it interesting that the scatter in the values is 1/10 as much. My theory is that cleaning the EGR Valve means more precise positioning of the valve by the stepper motor.

    I still have to clean the intake manifold. I have been sidelined by Shingles, of all things. Working during a heat advisory is miserable with sweat running through the outbreak. Shouldn't take long once I get to do it later this week.
     
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  4. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    At least the intake is much easier than the EGR System......mine was really dirty and I installed a Catch Can at the same time.
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Think I’ve mentioned but anyways: you don’t need to disconnect coolant lines from throttle body when taking it off. Intake is pretty easy, brake cleaner, rags and brushes.

    Addendum: While not mandatory, taking off the two studs at the throttle body is not a bad idea; it reduces the risk of them getting bent when you're cleaning the intake. They require E6 Torx socket. I believe the torque spec's in the attachment. A 1/4" torque wrench is good to have for torquing the throttle body, and aforementioned studs, the torque spec is pretty light.
     
    #65 Mendel Leisk, Jul 12, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
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  6. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I can count on @Mendel to provide the torque specs. Thanks.

    I had such great luck with the Purple Power on the EGR and cooler, that I thought I'd just use a hand operated fluid pump to push Purple Power through the passages, over a 5 gallon bucket. I also looked into gun cleaning brushes. 9mm . .357 might be the right size, and the brushes have female threads on them for extension.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I’d caution AGAINST using a caustic cleaner. If you do, rinse VERY well: there’s brass-coloured threaded inserts, that react with strong bases. I used oxi-clean and found corrosive gunk, both on the inserts and bolts passing through them. Seriously, brake cleaner is good enough.
     
  8. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I'll take that in mind. Purple power is amazing stuff though. I got it on my hands, and it did nothing to them. No fumes either. I was more concerned about using a metal brush on plastic.
     
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  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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  10. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    This is what I bought:
    Purple Power Degreaser, 1 Gallon - Walmart.com - Walmart.com

    I read the sheet, and it does appear to offer a lot of warnings about skin contact. I wasn't "soaking in it" like "Madge" used to do to her customers in those "palmolive dishwashing soap" commercials in the 80s:


    Interesting about the safety sheet. I was surprised that it contains 25% Lye. I used it straight, and I definitely got it on my hands with no burning. I rinsed it off well when I was done. My skin was a little dry afterwards. About what I would have expected from using Pine-Sol.

    BTW: I like to avoid using brake cleaner when I can because it evaporates, and then I am pretty sure it becomes a greenhouse gas.

    TOMORROW: I am going to drop off the 2017 for its state safety inspection in the morning (and put the PA tags on it finally). When that is done, go swap cars to get the 2013 from my wife's workplace, then I will begin the Intake Manifold cleaning! A day and a half should be plenty of time.

    I will start with brushes as best I can. Then pumping the Purple Power with a hand pump directly through the passages should protect the "brass-coloured threaded inserts". Plus a good hose down.

    I have a pump similar to this:
    Multi-Use Transfer Pump
     
    #70 gromittoo, Jul 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
  11. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Got started today. I was not expecting to see about 2 tablespoons of oil under the throttle body, considering how clean my plugs were. I see that the PCV valve dumps its contents right above the bend at the bottom, so maybe that is normal.
    OilInIntake04.jpg

    The $20 brush set I bought at Harbor Freight did wonders on the small EGR passages, but the extensions were useless for the long horizontal tube. The set is reasonable quality, but the coupler on the extension gets caught on something between the first and second galley.

    Engine Brush Kit, 20 Pc.

    My next-door neighbor showed me a brush he uses for his fish tank, that would fit perfectly. I'll buy one tonight.


    I'll do the deep soak tomorrow.
     
  12. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Thanks for the heads up about the coolant lines. I saw in the NutsAboutBolts video how much trouble he had clamping those lines off. With just the two cooling lines connected, it was easy to move the throttle body out of the way.

    Interesting about the studs with the E6 torx. I see the 2 studs on the 2010 diagram you posted. My 2013 V has 4 long bolts holding the TB in place, instead of 2 bolts + 2 studs with nuts. I suspect Toyota realized there was no advantage to using studs in that location, and switched to 4 bolts. It certainly makes torquing the TB in place a lot less complicated.

    While we are at it... in case someone else reads this... I saw a video where someone noticed that most of the clips for the wiring harness are easy to take off with a 6 point 10mm socket. Pressing the socket with your fingers from behind where the prongs are, the clip just pops off. I can't believe it was that easy. Of course there is the one big clip that absolutely has to be undone to remove Intake manifold. That one can't use the 10mm socket trick.
     
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  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I remembered that trick, and confirmed today it was just that easy with a 10 mm open-end too. (At least, for the wiper harness clips I was releasing to get the cowl out. Access is easy there with a 10 mm open-end.)
     
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  14. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I wish I had known, I broke a few clips when I removed the cowl.
     
  15. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I managed to complete the Intake Manifold cleaning last night, just before company arrived. This means the entire EGR circuit is cleaned on my 95K Uber driven 2013 Prius V.

    When I started it up, I heard the worst noise I have ever heard from an engine, and I turned it off immediately. I tried again, and there was some noise, and a MIL. Company was coming over, and I needed to re-arrange the three vehicles in the driveway. My beater minivan had a dead battery from leaving the tailgate open for too many hours, and it was blocking the 2013.

    When I started for the 2013 first time, The engine made a really awful noise that threw a Czech Engine light. It settled down, and the MIL went out. By the time II put the minivan at the #3 position on a charger, my 2013 Prius V sounded OK, and the MIL went out.

    After the company left, I grabbed my laptop and pulled the codes. Here is the screenshot:

    PostIntakeManifoldCleanCodes-2021-07-15 175220.jpg

    While I was finishing up, I was disconnecting and reconnecting the Evap Purge valve hoses a few times, to get the cooling lines to the Throttle Body to lay correctly. I have not driven the 2013 any real distance yet, so I don't have any new data to post. I am Ubering tonight.

    I wound up buying an aquarium nylon bristle set to clean out the long passage. It did not pull much out of the two intake ports that the Harbour Freight brushes could not reach on the long EGR passage.

    Then I used the rest of my "Purple Power" cleaning out the IM. I hand pumped the Purple power into where the EGR tube connects, and with the IM laying on its back (Engine ports facing up), I pumped Purple Power through. With the IM laying on its back, the PCV inlet acts as a natural overflow valve. With every push of the hand pump, PP squirted out of the 4 EGR ports. You could tell that the EGR port furthest from the EGR tube was the dirtiest, based on the color of what came out. PP trarts to bubble when it has no more grease to dissolve. When I was done, I stuck it into the laundry sink to rinse everything off.

    Here is my setup:
    IM_Clean.jpg

    You can't see the EGR ports for each cylinder from this angle, but when I started pumping gently, a half inch high fountain of solvent comes out of the right side of each cylinder hole, Before the solvent overflows, the PCV fitting bleeds off the excess solvent.

    I tried to make a video, but my PC BSODs when I try to play it. If I were to use this method again, I would place the IM on its back in a laundry sink. PP does not have fumes (even though it is 25% lye), and a laundry sink is the perfect place to catch all the used solvent (the hose fitting on the right of the photo). My laundry sink has a basement window next to it, just to be on the safe side.

    I will check back in once I get data.
     
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  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The Mass Air Flow sensor and the Intake Air Temperature sensor are combined in the one unit that sits on the back of the air box; I would guess the P0102 and P0113 are both from neglecting to plug that back in at some point. (I had both of those as 'permanent' codes when I finished my job yesterday, and I didn't even remember ever turning the car on while it was disconnected, but I suppose I must have. Anyway, thanks to Elektroingenieur, now at least I know how to make their monitors run so the permanent codes go away.)

    The word 'pedal' in the fortune cookies for P0121/P0123/P2135 is a mistake (perhaps on the part of the translators); those are all about the position sensor on the throttle body, which is another thing you'd have been likely to unplug at some point in the festivities.

    The P0441 and P0455 could have been about the purge lines disconnected.
     
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Rinse out the purple power REAL good, and maybe spritz something like WD40 on the brass coloured inserts, follow up with light oil. Or you will get “crusties”, down the road.
     
  18. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I cleared all the codes, and they did not come back. I had to disconnect the Throttle Body connector while working on the project, and I never disconnected the 12v battery. I suspect I briefly turned the car on for the purpose of closing the power windows at one point. Maybe the computer still checked the validity of the TP position while the TB and EVAP Purge were disconnected. This might even explain the really rough start I started the car for real the first time post-cleaning..

    I spent the weekend doing 300 miles of Uber driving, trying to catch up on missed revenue. I did grab some data points:

    Full EGR Path cleaned, EGR FLOW INSUFFIENCY:
    Mileage Value Notes
    95.235 14.49 wife commuting highway miles
    95.376 15.19 Uber highway + city miles,
    95.493 15.33 Uber City miles​

    I am surprised that I got one data point of 20+ when I only had half the EGR path clean (I even discounted it as a fluke). The 15.6 average is still an improvement over 15.1, but nothing like the consistent 20+ that @ChapmanF got. Now that I have cleaned the Intake Manifold, I am seeing values closer to my original values. HMMM...

    I have been wondering if I cleaned the EGR good enough. I got 20+ on the first data point after cleaning the cooler and EGR (but not the manifold. I wonder if some crud broke free, and is causing some sticking in the EGR. I may pull the EGR at a later date, and grind the rest of the Phillips head screws off, and do a more thorough cleaning.
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I got some socket head cap screws in M5x16, a while back, WELL in advance of next (if ever) cleaning. They take a hex bit, probably a lot easier to do subsequent removal, especially with a little anti-seize on threads. Not 100% sure that’s the size, but IIRC that was recommended here.
     
    #79 Mendel Leisk, Jul 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  20. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Allen socket head screws are the way to go.

    I recall, the Phillips headed bolts come out on the other side of the mounting flange. I might just break the stuck screws with a vice-grip from behind, and turn them that way. Once out, I'd clean up the threads with a Tap.