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2021 Prius C models?

Discussion in 'Prius c Main Forum' started by Pri3C, Mar 17, 2021.

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  1. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    I have thought quite a bit about the Maverick as well. Genius marketing and pricing. With the pricing of the Maverick compared to a vehicle like the Prius C, I'd wager most folks in the USA market will choose the Maverick ( i.e. - larger vehicle ). Maybe Toyota saw this coming and knew they would lose that battle..at least in the USA market.

    And yes, there is the myth of 'Toyota reliability'. However, I think head gasket issues, etc...have really tarnished their image lately. :whistle: Heck, there is an entire cottage industry for head gasket replacement and engine swaps on Gen3 based vehicles.
     
  2. Pri3C

    Pri3C Active Member

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    Yes, even Toyota models have issues and break down, but I 100% disagree about their reputation for reliability being a myth. As far as I’m concerned, no other car manufacturer comes close to touching their reputation in this regard, especially when it comes to workhorse commuter type vehicles that are built to last.. Toyota is still king.
     
  3. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Haha...I knew I was going to be roasted over that comment ( we are on PriusChat after all ) (y). While Toyota does have the 'reputation' of quality...their image has certainly been tarnished a little bit on various issues lately. Plus the fact they are not owning up to their design flaws ( EGR, head gasket, oil consumption, etc...). Of course, the average joe probably doesn't even know about these issues...so the 'reputation' is probably still intact....until they buy a used Prius and run into said issues. :whistle:

    For the record, I'm still a believer in Toyota, even though I've run into many of these issues. Hmm...what does that say about me? Kool aid comes to mind...haha. (y) I'm honestly surprised at the steadfastness of folks around here ( including me )...even when they run into major issues. But I guess we are 'enthusiasts'...right?
     
  4. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot Active Member

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    That would be amazing! 600 mile fill ups may be possible then with ease maybe?
     
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  5. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot Active Member

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    So far it seems like the Prius C doesn't have this issue? When the EGR cooler clogs it then creates heat that causes the gasket failer? I don't hear about issues here in the hot climates so must be more common in the colder winter states?
     
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  6. Pri3C

    Pri3C Active Member

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    Fair enough! Yes, I’m clearly a Toyota enthusiast, and I’ll quickly clutch my pearls and be shocked at the notion that the reliability of their vehicles is a myth! ;) but I can accept that common issues with certain model years has probably tarnished that reputation with some of those customers.

    I agree with you here.. and to be clear: I didn’t bring up the Maverick to imply that potential buyers would opt for a next gen Prius C instead. That being said, I also found myself very excited by this truck.. and here we are.. two subcompact car owners. On some level I think this says the marketing is important too.. and this new Prius C seems more marketable and sellable than ever to me.

    But yeah, all the car manufacturers in America seem to invest very little in really promoting their smaller cars, probably do in part to the smaller profit margins @sam spade 2 mentioned.

    I feel like the early to mid 90s was the last time (and maybe the first time?) subcompact cars were really popular in America. Then all the car makers, including Toyota, got in bed with oil industry and decided to push things into a bigger more fuel hungry direction. And they’ve continued to screw over the smaller car segment by giving them the same crap 30ish city / 36-40ish highway year after year. The fact that the Geo Metros and Ford Fiestas of the early 90s were as fuel efficient, or more so, than most of the compact cars on the road today is inexcusable. The fact that all gas powered vehicles of any size aren’t more fuel efficient is inexcusable.

    We’re going to see a lot of innovation and some big changes in trends in the next 10 years, and I think a resurgence of smaller car buying is very possible. We’ll see.
     
    #46 Pri3C, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  7. Pri3C

    Pri3C Active Member

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    Yeah, so far it seems like the Prius C has no common major issues at all, and time is proving it to be one of the most reliable hybrids Toyota has ever made.

    I did a lot of research before I bought mine and noticed even quite a few standard US Prii owners crapped on the C over the years as being a low quality Prius that’s not up to Toyota’s usual standards (some still do). I think the price probably had something to do with this perception, but if this new generation is as reliable as the one its replacing, $17,900-$23,600 seems like a pretty good value with all these new features and improvements.
     
    #47 Pri3C, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  8. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    I know..However, when I thought about it, if Toyota *did* see this coming, then perhaps they made a good decision.

    Doing a quick search..."the 2019 Toyota Prius C in L trim costs $22,450; the LE starts at $23,875". That is even *more* than the Maverik's starting price. So the C would be a very tough sell...in fact, the MSRP of the C is probably the reason they didn't sell many of them. I pretty much guarantee most folks would choose the Maverick if given the choice ( however, not necessarily PriusChat'ers (y) ).

    I've been snooping around over at MaverickChat and I see quite a few Prius owners over there...so the Maverick certainly has piqued the interest of Prius folk. (y)
     
  9. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    BTW - over on another thread I have a post that kind of addresses *why* the C may be more reliable...

    Anybody over a 100k miles and still on the original transmission fluid? | PriusChat
     
  10. Pri3C

    Pri3C Active Member

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    Yeah, who would’ve thought a Ford truck would be tempting Prius owners in 2021, but they’re definitely aiming this at the traditionally non-truck-buying, urban and suburban driver.

    Some of those Prius owners might not be too happy with all the extra money they’ll be paying at the pump in the long run. Ford says they’re “aiming” for 40mpg in the city, but that’s not an official estimate, and as far as I know they’ve yet to say anything about its highway fuel economy.

    Ford really messed up their C-Max launch by over-estimating its fuel economy, and the C-Max also ended up being a hybrid with some serious reliability issues. I’m excited about this truck because I think it’s an important release, but they really need to seal the deal by making sure this Maverick is built to last.. and I don’t think Ford has the best track record in this department, especially with their lower cost models, so we’ll see.

    I still think this new Prius C could do very well in the US with the right marketing. There are lots of new features and improvements to promote, and if the Japanese fuel estimates are more accurate this time around, 84mpg will sell itself. But regardless of whether it comes back to the US over the next year or two, it should do well in Japan, and it’s a taste of what’s to come for the next generation of Toyota hybrids.
     
    #50 Pri3C, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  11. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    But again comparing 2022 Gen IV to Aqua WLTC the Gen IV lift back is still slightly better.
    The trouble with the Maverick is the classic loss leader problem.

    Although the Maverick starts around $22k to enter after paying mandatory fees in reality it will be hard to walk on a lot and find one at that price.

    Most will sell for $26-$34k once equipped

    That said back in the day Trying to find a Prius C One was a lesson in futility also.
     
  12. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Well...Ford seems to be accepting the preorders of the base model just fine. We'll see how that pans out. :whistle:

    BTW - it is pretty fascinating stuff over at MaverickChat. Lots of folks considering a hybrid for the first time...tons of 'first timer' type questions and discussion over there! (y)
     
  13. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Unexpected mandatory additional charges to take delivery?
     
  14. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Remember what else the Prius c had to compete with:

    Screen Shot 2021-07-22 at 6.00.00 AM.png

    Hyundai Accent

    It remains available in the USA market for $15,395. A whopping $7,055 less than the Prius c base model quoted above.

    Yes, it's a plain gas car and they claim 33mpg combined.

    We recently sold ours. I had no trouble beating EPA estimates for mileage, and on the longest of highway trips it was usually closer to 42mpg, and this new model has more gears.

    We ran the car for 14 years and 175k miles with remarkably low maintenance expenses and zero hybrid battery replacements. No problems with the brake booster either.

    I sold it to somebody who expects to keep driving it for a while and I didn't have to wish them luck- I know it's going to work.

    We did consider one (they still offered the hatchback version that year) when we got our c. We got the c because we felt like getting a fancier car, knowing full well that the fuel savings would never be enough to offset the extra cost of the car.

    The Accent isn't the only one down in that range. The Nissan Versa and the little Mitsubishi are still out there too.

    A Prius c can still win the "saves money" contest if the utilization factor is high enough. I've never tried to work out exactly where that line is, but our direct experience with a Prius c and a Hyundai Accent has been enough to suggest to me that it is around 25-30k miles per year.

    I'll say it again: Drive more than 30k per year and the Prius really is saving you money. Drive fewer than 25k miles/year and you're officially paying extra to enjoy a fancier car. I'm not consumption-shaming: it's just a dry look at the results.
     
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  15. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Interesting you had an Accent. We currently still have a 2012 Hyundai Sonata Limited and 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT....both from before the time we discovered hybrids. (y) The Elantra GT MSRP was around 19K...but we got a much better deal than that at the time. So yeah...the Prius C was a tough sell whichever way you look at it.

    And I share your experience. Almost zero issues on both of the Hyundais...And very little maintenance required as well. And no dang head gasket issues, etc... :whistle:

    And ironically, the fact that our Prius v wagon needs a head gasket has given me the motivation to take a peek at what cars are out there these days. And the new Elantra Hybrid looks pretty darn good.
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    We need a correction factor though. Geo Metros and Ford Fiestas of the early 90s don't have the same high and ultra high tensile strength steel, the crash protection of today's tests and all extra electronics (ABS, TCS, ESP, radar and cameras).

    Truth. Cars can be made more fuel efficient but it costs the manufacturer money and has less appeal than more hp/tq or more creature comforts.
     
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  17. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    They put a 7 year warranty on their engines - they must have some decent faith in them. And - unlike some other brands, which have been very difficult in getting warranty claims honoured, TOYOTA hasn't had a problem, at least with engines and drivetrains.

    THAT said - I've had more warranty and recall incidents with my PRIUS than all my previous, almost 2 dozen cars combined.

    Oh - and reports are that the Prius c WON'T be coming to Australia.
     
    #57 alanclarkeau, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  18. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I was just watching a game show on Japanese television, the usual stuff where they guess how much pudding it takes to fill a dog or whatever and I saw an ad for the new Aqua. The plug-out generator setup was prominently featured.
     
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  19. Pri3C

    Pri3C Active Member

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    ^ Awesome. I think they’re going to sell a ton of these in Japan.

    If I have one aesthetic quibble about the design, it would be the way they pieced the new parts together (e.g. the lines from the hatch extension), but I understand that keeping production costs low for this model has always been a big priority for Toyota.

    As far as the value prospect in America is concerned, the fact that the Prius C is continuing to prove itself to be one of the most reliable hybrids Toyota has ever made makes it a great value to me. I value its smaller footprint and genuinely love its compact size. My C is primarily a 1 person ride, occasionally 2-3, so it’s a perfect fit for me. I’m certainly not losing any money on mine, no matter how many miles I drive, but I bought it used for a great price.

    Comparing this new model to something like the Hyundai Accent @ $15.4, the new Aqua base price converts to $17.9 USD and gets 84mpg. Yes please.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think Hyundai makes some very decent reliable compact cars. I’ve a family member with a 2017 Elantra they purchased pretty much brand new (I think it had 4-6k miles on it), it’s probably got about 70k miles on the odometer now and they’ve had zero issues. The new Ioniq also seems like a worthy option for potential Prius buyers to consider, and I think it’s currently the most fuel efficient standard hybrid on the road in America with a 60mpg highway rating.

    I rented a Hyundai Accent in 2016 and drove it all over the mountain roads in Wyoming. It did ok, and I liked it a lot at the time, but it struggled more than any of the subsequent cars I drove on those types of roads, including the Prius C, which performed much better than the Accent in many of the same areas last summer. The Prius C is certainly the more refined and the better quality car, IMO, without question.
     
    #59 Pri3C, Jul 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
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  20. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    A straight ¥ to $ conversion doesn't account for everything.

    It's possible that the new model would cost less than the 1st generation, but I haven't found a way to compare Japanese market pricing between the base trims of the 2019 and 2022 model years.

    I realize they took some measures specifically to cut costs in the new generation car, but a full 25% reduction to get from $22.4k to $17.9k on the base trim? Nope, I just don't believe that.

    I don't think anyone in the thread has taken the position that the Hyundai is the better car. I'm just trying to illustrate that while there may be small hybrids, there's no such thing as a low-end hybrid, and that makes it possible to out-thrift a hybrid.