1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Cloud cover reduction?

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Oct 7, 2021.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,131
    15,392
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Source: Earth is less bright than it used to be because there are fewer clouds in the air, study

    The Earth is bouncing back less light into space because its cloud coverage isn't what it used to be, a study found. This is due to the cloud coverage being reduced due to a fluctuation in ocean temperatures, the researchers said.

    Philip Goode, a researcher at New Jersey Institute of Technology, and a lead author on the study, described his findings to CNN.

    Called 'albedo', this is the degree the earth reflects versus absorbs solar light. A complex function because more than visible light is involved. But in the past, there has been discussion of sea and surface ice loss increasing the absorption of solar heating. Yet some claimed as the earth warmed, more clouds would somewhat compensate. So take this lay report of a study with a grain of salt.

    The scientific method means no one study is definitive but the body of work, replication by other means leads to trustable results. Certainly a loss of cloud cover is going to affect solar heating along with the greenhouse gasses. More details to follow over time. Please use peer reviewed sources.

    Source_2: https://skepticalscience.com/clouds-negative-feedback.htm

    Untitled.jpg
    In this model, the longer path through the greenhouse/CO{2} column means more solar energy is trapped. Higher clouds would reduce the longer path. Unfortunately, Dr Roy Spencer who I am skeptical of, claims clouds have a significant negative feedback effect ... cooling the earth. My fear is high clouds may sublimate into water vapor, another greenhouse gas, and trap more heat.

    Source_3: https://skepticalscience.com/clouds-negative-feedback-intermediate.htm

    Although the cloud feedback is one of the largest remaining uncertainties in climatescience, evidence is building that the net cloud feedback is likely positive, and unlikely to be strongly negative.

    "Climate models used by the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) assume that clouds provide a large positive feedback, greatly amplifying the small warming effect of increasing CO2 content in air. Clouds have made fools of climate modelers. A detailed analysis of cloud behavior from satellite data by Dr. Roy Spencer of the University of Alabama in Huntsville shows that clouds actually provide a strong negative feedback, the opposite of that assumed by the climate modelers. The modelers confused cause and effect, thereby getting the feedback in the wrong direction."

    As the earth warms, what is the effect of actual clouds on the earth energy balance? The experiment continues.

    Bob Wilson
     

    Attached Files:

    #1 bwilson4web, Oct 7, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,691
    38,232
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Always troublesome, being the lab rats...
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,131
    15,392
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    That is how God designed it.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  4. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    3,296
    1,006
    0
    Location:
    Arcadia, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Why don't we adjust Earth's orbit around the sun a little further away? (Shrugs).

    REVVL V+ 5G ?
     
  5. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,171
    4,163
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    This is a joke?
     
  6. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    3,296
    1,006
    0
    Location:
    Arcadia, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Watching too much movies lately. Sorry...

    REVVL V+ 5G ?
     
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    The abundance of Earth imagery taken from orbit over about 50 years makes this very 'testable'. What fraction of each 'scene' is cloud covered? Stratify by location and season. With some sensors, cloud-top temperature indicates cloud height.

    Train AI to classify images, and human eyeballs are not subsequently needed.

    This has been doable for quite a while.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,113
    10,043
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Also here:
    The Earth isn't as bright as it once was - CNN

    The measured reduction in earthshine:
    upload_2021-10-7_18-10-36.png

    "In fact, the Earth is now reflecting about half a watt less light per square meter than it was 20 years ago, the equivalent of a 0.5% decrease in the Earth's reflectance."

    A half watt per square meter of extra solar heat would be a significant adder to AGW.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    CERES was pretty much built for this, so it's good to see their results. But cloudy 'scenes' have been baby vs. bathwater throwaways since lookdown satellites began.