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oil plug torque setting

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by mengoni, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    This 64~65 nomenclature in the descriptions may just be arbitrary rounding, by the editors. I'd suspect the filters are 64.0 as a rule, and the filter sockets, obviously needing a slight clearance, are around 64.5 mm. Some descriptions saying 65 could be just 64.5 rounded up. Maybe.

    What I do know: the Honda filter socket is quite snug, sometimes needs a bit of a tap to release after use.

    I'd suspect the Toyota kosher filter is very similar. Notable: it does not have an extension and slots for stiffeners; they're on the same wavelength there.

    I picked up one similar to your Bike Service link, thought I was going to need 67 mm for the Mazda CX-5 I'm also changing the oil on. Strange thing: I did need it, once, to take off the factory oil filter. The replacement filter, also indicated as Mazda, bought through Mazda dealership, was 64 mm, lol.

    That filter socket was notably thinner gauge, only cost me about $5 (CDN), but worked ok. Not sure how it would stand up over the years, but meh.
     
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  2. Zeppo Shanski

    Zeppo Shanski Active Member

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    WOW. ... This thread is just a fountain of technological information. Mendel ... You cracked me up worrying about counterfeit wrenches. All I know is that I've only needed a wrench on cars I've worked on the very first time; that is if no pita bystanders get in the way changing the oil in-between me doing it. I've always gone with the torque being hand-tite. I always wipe a smear of oil on the rubber gasket and my finger around the thread inside the filter, like suggested singe the first good oil filter. They usually come off just as easy that way. I've never really need more than a few motivational whacks from a screwdriver handle if they were stuck.

    Oil drain plugs usually have a gasket that goes with; if not you should be able to feel just snug. Either way, I've always gone with 1/4-turn after snug. Spark-plugs the same way. I do like using just a little snot-glob of anti-seize on plugs.
     
    #22 Zeppo Shanski, Mar 6, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Third gen oil filter is a little different, permanent cannister, with an O-ring that goes some distance into a bore on the engine, as you screw it in.

    Regardless of filter style, I torque it to the specification. That 1/4 turn past snug is a Honda recomendation as well. They also give a torque value, so I go with that.
     
  4. Fostel

    Fostel Member

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    It's done! Happy days coming...
    Selection_140.png
     
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  5. burrito

    burrito Active Member

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    If you're replacing the oil pan, those bolts get torqued to 7 ft*lb:

    Oil Pan Bolts.png
     
  6. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Toyota follows the recommended J.I.S. (Japan Industrial Standard) for tightening an M12x1.25 bolt, which is the thread size on the oil plug.

    That would be very important, if the bolt was used to fasten two components together as the bolt is a "stretched" tensioning element.

    In the case of the oil plug, it holds nothing together but itself in place.

    The plug, which is a bolt, is held in place by both tension of the threads in the thread of the captive nut welded to the sheet metal of the oil pan and the friction between the underside of the head rubbing on one side of the sealing washer and the washer on the surface of the sheet metal of the oil pan.

    Any torque in the neighborhood on 10 ft. lbs, or so will hold it in place and will not allow it to loosen.

    The reason to use such low torque is to preserve the longevity of the threads on the captive nut welded to the inside of the sheet metal of the oil pan.

    Because the bolt apples tension to the threads, it is bending them "back and forth" like a lever arm every time that it is removed and replaced. The repeated cycles will eventually cause separation of the boundary layers of the crystals of the steel alloy in the steel of the threads at the inside end of the fulcrum of the lever arm. This is technically called metal fatigue. It is like taking a steel wire paper clip and bending it back and forth in one place.

    Eventually, the oil pan's threads will strip out due to metal fatigue.

    Tightening the oil plug just enough to just hold it in place will appreciably increase the life of the threads in the oil pan.
     
  7. Colorado Boo

    Colorado Boo Active Member

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    Always glad seeing people doing their own car maintenance! I agree with the gorilla's who work at dealership/lube places...my daughter had her 2012 Sienna's oil changed at a Jiffy Lube and the next time it was due I did it and the idiot tightened her plastic cartridge oil filter so tight I had to order a replacement (I got the metal replacement and told her that I will be doing her oil changes from now on.)
    FWIW, Toyota does have two different sizes on their cartridge oil filters, one is slightly smaller. It's unbelievable but true...the size on my Tundra is smaller than the one on my old Scion iQ! (The filter is much longer, though.)
    After you work on a cars for a few years, you won't have to torque oil drain plugs or filters...you'll know the feel...just snug it up and call it a day! I do use the torque for just about everything else, though and have a 1/2, 1/4, and 3/8 inch torque wrenches for various jobs.
    Tip: Always reset the torques to 0 after you use them...helps them stay in calibration.
     
  8. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    I don't even use the the blue plastic coated aluminum o-ring that Toyota supplies.

    I found these Viton o-rings to be much better, as they use them in the aircraft and spacecraft industry.



    [For Mendel:
    111 Viton O-Ring, 75A Durometer, Round, Brown, 7/16" ID, 5/8" OD, 3/32" Width (Pack of 50)]


    Basically, they will seal with the least amount of surface pressure compressing them. If they expand past the outer edge of the oil plug's washer, the plug is too tight.

    Also, they are much less expensive than the Toyota washers.
     
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  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    @Georgina Rudkus. Is the 10 ft. lbs. torque spec on Viton O-ring used as a gasket on the drain plug applicable to engines other than Prius? More specifically, can it be used on the Honda engine too with this low torque? I just did an oil change on my son's Honda CRZ with a partially stripped oil pan thread. I swapped a short OEM drain plug with a longer plug to catch the remaining threads on the inner part of the oil pan. But I did not want to overstrain the remaining few threads. I have applied 10 ft. lbs. using a torque wrench and did not see any leak. I hope it works. Previously, I used a thread locker and OEM aluminum crush washer with hand tightening the plug. It has worked without a leak, but this time I switched to an even longer plug and used a Viton O-ring instead of an aluminum washer. I hope that was OK.
     
  10. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Yes, absolutely. A lot of manufacturers are going to Viton or HNBR o-rings.They have provided a perfect seal in many aerospace applications. Cummins and many other manufacturers have used Viton for many many years for their high pressure fuel and lubrication systems.

    You can get an assortment at Harbor Freight like this;

    180 Piece Viton O-Ring Kit

    I believe size 112 is the correct size for the Honda M14x1.5 drain plug. A half or 3/4 turn after contact is all you need. No torque wrench is required. The friction and pressure on the o-ring acts like a lock washer. It also acts like a rubber gasket.
     
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  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thank you for getting back to me. I should have asked before doing it, but have already done it. Just had a nagging question if I did OK or not. Now I feel much better.

    I used this drain plug. Yep. I replaced the aluminum washer that came with the plug to this Viton O-ring, 112 Viton O-Ring, 75A Durometer, Round, Brown, 1/2" ID, 11/16" OD, 3/32" Width (Pack of 50).

    Yeah, I used a torque wrench to 10ft-lb this time, but that did feel very tight. In fact, much tighter than the last oil change I did with the thread locker applied which was just "hand tightened to snug" without using a torque wrench. Next time, I will just "hand tighten".

    I also did CVT fluid drain and fill. The drain plug torque spec on CRZ I found online was 36 ft-lb. That was very, very tight.
     
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  12. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    If I was close to you, I lend you my M16x1.5 tap to tap the hole out in the Honda and replace it with this plug.

    Dorman 65325 Oil Drain Plug Standard M16-1.50, Head Size 17Mm Compatible with Select Models



    You'd never have the problem again with stripped oil pan threads, if you use a Viton o-ring with it.
     
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  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thanks. Well, if the remaining few threads on the oil pan get stripped, then I will have to get it re-tapped. I don't think I can do it DIY. I hope I can find a mechanic who will do it for a reasonable fee.

    Yeah, I stripped the oil pan by overtightening the plug on my very first DIY oil change. I did research on how to fix it. The most expensive but permanent fix would have been changing the oil pan. Next would be to re-tap the oil pan to use a larger drain plug. Helicoil and Time-sert were also options. But I felt any of those options were beyond my capability. I thought about using an over-sized drain plug, but then I saw several YouTube videos all on Honda with stripped oil-pan thread which was fixed using a longer but original M14x1.5mm bolt. I went with the cheapest and easiest fix, even I could DIY.
     
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  14. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    It's absolutely easy. If you don't have a tap wrench, an adjustable wrench will do. Just follow the current stripped out threads, since they would be both 1.5 metric. The most important part is to back out the tap, when you feel an increase in resistance to clear the chips. Then, you can proceed again.
    ATOPLEE Metric Thread Tap,M16 HSS Right Hand Thread Tap (M16x1.5)
     
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  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I would try it DIY if I have access to a lift. I just don't feel comfortable crawling under the car on my driveway and working on the vital part of the vehicle. With a slight slip of the hand, I may end up making the hole not perpendicular or a sliver of shaving ending up inside causing irrecoverable damage to the engine. The oil change and transmission fluid drain and fill are about all I will try DIY under the car.
     
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  16. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    The tap is tapered and will follow the current remnants of the threads into the hole. I've done it so many times. There is nothing to slip, if you can screw in a drain plug, you can tap out the hole. Tapping it out is no different.

    You'd grease the tap to have most the cuttings stick to the tap when removed. The more cycles of tapping and removing the cleared chips, the better.

    If you drain the oil in a clean pan, pouring the used oil back into the engine and draining it out would flush out the remaining chips.

    Actually, I have found many times that a careful do-it-yourselfer can do a better job than a professional.

    I started working on my own cars, because I had to re-do so many jobs that I had others do tht I paid good money for.
     
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  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thanks for the advice. I will keep in my mind in case the necessity to re-tap the oil pan arises in the future. There is still an issue of not having a lift and having to work on it outside on my driveway. With the current long drain plug with Viton O-ring just hand tightening, the remaining original threads in the oil pan may last for a long time not needing any further intervention. Certainly, that would be the easiest solution for me.
     
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  18. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    If you can get under the car to change oil, you can tap the pan. It takes no more than 10 minutes. For many years, I worked on my car in the dirt under Rhino Ramps. supported by plywood strips.
     
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