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GFCI requirement ?

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by Marine Ray, Dec 29, 2021.

  1. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    Per around page 128 in owner's manual, any fellow electrician savvy members think I'm wrong that I don't have a GFCI outlet in my garage when charging my PP ?

    GFCI.JPG
     
  2. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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  3. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Yes, you are wrong.
     
  4. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Depends when the house was built. In the 1950's there was no ground wire, only a white neutral. Neutral is not a ground. It is a phase return.
     
  5. dig4dirt

    dig4dirt MoonGlow

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    I am not electrician savvy, but I installed a gfci outlet per the manual, about $20 and 10 minutes.
     
  6. road2cycle

    road2cycle Active Member

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    Notice Toyota's language of "strongly recommended". They can't force you to install a GFCI outlet if you don't have one, but they have covered themselves in case something bad happens to you if you choose not to. For your safety, I would have an GFCI outlet installed. Switching a standard outlet to a GFCI protected outlet was the first thing I did in my garage after purchasing my Prime.
     
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  7. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Your Prius draws a LOT of power for a long time.* A GFCI receptacle promises to turn off that power if something seems amiss. If nothing ever goes wrong, you are fine.

    You can search here for issues where folks have set fire to their garage. (or bathroom) You honestly never want to write such a post.

    If you burn down your house and sue, Toyota's defense will be they told you have GFCI.

    *A hair dryer draws a similar amount of power, but no one dry's their hair for 5 hours.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    can you get an L2 gfci?
     
  9. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    If you get a hard-wired L2 EVSE, it most likely will include GFCI protection as part of its internal circuitry and you will not need to do anything special for the 240v circuit to which it is wired.

    If you want to install a 240 outlet, you can get a 240v GFCI circuit breaker to install in your panel:

    240v-50A-GFCI-breaker.jpg

    They are not inexpensive, but readily available.
     
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  10. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    Yes. And that's a good reason to install a GFCI outlet on such a circuit. If there is metallic conduit or metallic armored cable, that can be used as a ground.

    However, while a GFCI outlet should have a ground, it is not necessary for the functioning of the GFCI. It will detect an imbalance in current flow between the hot and neutral wires even without a ground.

    Possibly one of our more code-savvy forum members can explain what the present NEC allows on legacy circuits where there is no available ground at the outlet box.
     
  11. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    If you are to ground the GFCI is a circuit that does not have an original grounding conductor, the GFCI must have a grounding conductor that is added to bond with the main ground in the panel box. A non-bonded "phantom ground' will result in a dangerous situation. It has the effect of a floating ground and a dangerous voltage gradient.
     
  12. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    A gfci is allowed on a grandfathered two wire circuit with only a hot and neutral. It is safe without a ground conductor because any leakage current will trip the gfci. In fact it is far safer than a standard two or three prong receptacle especially in bathrooms and other wet locations. Depending if it is a remote gfci breaker or a local gfci receptacle, it must be labeled as “GFCI Protected” and or “No Equipment Ground”. The voltage is not floating as the neutral is referenced to ground in the panel.


    Sec. 210-7(d)(3) permits any of the following installations when replacing a 2-wire ungrounded receptacle:

    (a) Replace it with another 2-wire receptacle;

    (b) Replace it with a GFCI-type receptacle and mark the receptacle with the words “No Equipment Ground;” or

    (c) Replace it with a grounding-type receptacle protected by a GFCI device (circuit breaker or receptacle). Since the grounding terminals for the receptacles are not grounded, you must mark the receptacles with the words “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground”
     
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  13. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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  14. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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  15. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    GFCI catches only one particular kind of "amiss", not any others. It isn't meant to prevent your house burning down. It is meant to prevent you from being electrocuted.
     
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  17. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    Good point. So why do you think the owner's manual requires a GFCI outlet? To protect the individual from electrocution upon first plunging in? After the plug is in the outlet the GFCI requirement really has no purpose.
    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  18. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    A gfci continuously protects people who might otherwise touch an electrified appliance, car, bath water, drill, whatever is drawing power from it. New construction often has gfci breakers on every 120v circuit for personnel protection combined with arc fault protection to significantly reduce the chance of electrical fires.
     
    #18 rjparker, Dec 29, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2021
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  19. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    Protection while plunging, er, plugging and unplugging in wet or damp locations was the justification given for adding 625.54, requiring GFCI protection for EV charging outlets, to the National Electrical Code; see the proposal (PDF) and adopted TIA 17-2 (PDF).

    I don’t know why Toyota chose to state their own requirement for GFCI. It’s not among the statements required to be in the instructions by the tri-national Standard for Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, published as UL 2594 in the U.S., CSA C22.2 No. 280-16 in Canada, and NMX-J-677-ANCE-2016 in Mexico. (You can view the entire standard at no charge, after registering, on UL’s website.)

    If your receptacle isn’t already on a GFCI circuit breaker, replacing it with a GFCI one is a good idea, if only to protect anything else that might be plugged in when the outlet isn’t in use for charging. It’s not required, but I’d probably choose a heavy-duty (Fed. Spec.) type, such as Leviton’s G5262-WT (15 A) or G5362-WT (20 A) series.

    (I’m not sure I’d give such an endorsement to all the recently-added GFCI requirements in the NEC, by the way. In jurisdictions that have adopted the 2020 code, ask your favorite air conditioning contractor about 210.8(F)—the code-making panel apparently didn’t consider that the design standards for many kinds of equipment installed outdoors allow more leakage current, in normal operation, than GFCIs will tolerate.)
     
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  20. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    No it doesn't.
    It only "promises" to turn off the power if there is a ground fault.
    A LOT of other things can go wrong that the GFCI isn't designed to detect.
     
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