Barack Obama and the Prius

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 9 2006, 05:16 PM) [snapback]346663[/snapback]</div>

You are the one who needs to do some fact checking.

The last election proves that the Red state of Tennessee would not elect a black man to the United States Senate. And speaking of prejudice, did you forget the racially charged TV commercial that the RNC ran in that race?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Oct 20 2006, 12:41 PM) [snapback]335684[/snapback]</div>

eagle33199,

I agree with you, there is not enough corn to supply the demand. Plus, it is not always practical to pull from the food chain.

Luckily there are alternatives to making ethanol that are not well know or as profitable as compared to making it from corn.

That is the conversion of cellulose to ethanol. Here is a link that explains some of the technology. http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-017.html
Please remember that this website was last updated in 2002. So the technology has advanced since then.

I saw a presentation (2005) at the University of Nebraska Lincoln that spoke about making ethanol from lawn clippings that we normally put int the land fill. Just think, once a week in the summer, there is a special trash pickup for lawn waste. Free for the converting. This extened to hay, leaves, you name it.

Politicians typically focus on corn because it wins the hearts (and votes) of the American farmers and the farmer supporters. Some people think that if a politician is going to help the farmers (2% of USA population egaged in farming) they are going to help the rest of the country.

Glad to see people are talking about alternatives even though gas is relatively cheap again.

I want my PRIUS plug-in.
Can someone help? I heard that if you get 1,000 cars converted by Hymotion it wouldd cost only $6,500 each.
from: http://www.eaa-phev.org/index.php?title=PH...26redirect%3Dno
$12,500 + install for 1
$9,500 for orders >100
$6,500 for order >1,000

At this price, I am in. Anyone else?

Keep up the good work everyone!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Nov 9 2006, 06:14 PM) [snapback]346677[/snapback]</div>

Have you ever lived in California?

I hope our next president isn't a rapist either or someone who pardons terrorist's to help his wife's election needs. And maybe he won't give away nuclear secrets and sweep serious world problems under the rug to avoid any conflict and keep his approval ratings high.

But its always handy to have the big media agenda on your side to hide any problems or mistakes certain politicians make. How would you know he intelligent. Your media will never show you his mistakes.

I have an erotic attraction to the truth and I'm not so easily fooled. But I've come here to learn about the prius and what I might need to do to obtain the best deal and options and not be indoctrinated with liberal cool aid.
BTW, I don't belong to any political party.

It just seems like someone so hypocritical as Barack would be scratched off your list as a phony politician. But I think sometimes people are just happy being told what they want to hear and not what is the truth as it makes them feel better.

But thanks for the warm welcome livelychick.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Nov 9 2006, 06:18 PM) [snapback]346680[/snapback]</div>

Maybe it had more to do with him lying about his lawyer credentials. but maybe you never heard about that.
How many blacks were elected to high positions in blue states?
How many were appointed to high positions in the president rapist clintons whitehouse.
Clinton himself used to golf at all white golfing country clubs.
You better look in you own backyars before accusing red states of stereotypical prejudiced views.

How about the blacks that were running for gov and senator? In blue states for that matter? Blackwell? Michael Steele? They were rejected.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 9 2006, 10:17 PM) [snapback]346702[/snapback]</div>

Sorry, but it's your media, too. I have no problems with someone making mistakes; we're all human. Even the most thoughtful and intelligent do. I do have problems with the FACTS showing mistakes to the nth.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 9 2006, 10:17 PM) [snapback]346702[/snapback]</div>

Neither do I, buddy-ro. Being a pessimist who sees no one as decent because they're not perfect does not show an "erotic attraction to the truth." Weird image. We sometimes go into politics. Sorry if it offends your truthy sensibilities. There's a lot of posts that don't go political.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 9 2006, 10:17 PM) [snapback]346702[/snapback]</div>

Listen, if he's sporting an E85 vehicle, I applaud him for making an effort. It ain't a Prius, but it could be next...or even an EV!!!!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 9 2006, 10:17 PM) [snapback]346702[/snapback]</div>

You're quite welcome!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 9 2006, 10:24 PM) [snapback]346702[/snapback]</div>

Oh great...another poster off of his meds. Rape? What are you talking about??????? Say seduced, womanizer, dog, letch, all you want...you insulted the poor women who actually get raped by lumping rape on Clinton, too. Shame on you. That's simply deplorable, troll.

I live in one of the reddest states of all; we did elect the first black governor, though. We won't see another in my lifetime, or a woman, or a black Senator. I know the bubbas. And those all-white golf clubs? They're in red states, freak. I live ten miles down the road from one that only changed because they wouldn't allow our black governor in.

There's racism everywhere. It sucks. All we can do is work to combat it. And I hate to tell you something--stereotypes are generally based on some reality. I've lived in red all my life; visit blue when I can. And I know I was much more welcomed in backwoods Maine, upstate New York, and ANYWHERE in California with my black boyfriend than I am in the rural part of Virginia, Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, etc.

Thanks for pissing me off.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Oct 20 2006, 01:41 PM) [snapback]335684[/snapback]</div>

What in God's name is wrong with helping out American companies that employ hundreds of thousands of people, and provide health care for millions? GM is the U.S.'s largest private supplier of healthcare.

At the most basic level, it's YOUR country and YOUR countrymen that are in need of help. Then again, you did buy a car made in Japan, so the homeland must not be that big of a concern for you. Just as long as the Japanese economy stays afloat.

In regards to Ethanol: there's always switchgrass. Technology is quickly advancing to take full advantage of that huge resource. Not to mention all of the sugar cane in Hawaii can be put to good use.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Nov 9 2006, 07:38 PM) [snapback]346707[/snapback]</div>

I'm no troll. I saw the closed minded statements everyone was writing and had to chime in.

But unfortunately you resorted to calling names and acting in a uncontrollable manner when somone showed dissent to opinions you hold.
hey you folks won the house and the senate. You should be happy as everything will be wonderful now. And if it doesn't your media won't report it anyway unless its againt the President.
I do really hope to learn about the prius here as i probably will be buying one soon while I can get in on it while the stickers are still available to hybrids here. Also the availabilty is good right now.

To bad you can't control your emotions. Maybe you need to grow up some and learn about life. Maybe some character building would be in order as your rapist in chief once said.
Unfortunately Clinton never did deny the date rape with Juanita Broderick and the truth hurts to hear it I know. But he always was a world class liar.

But you resorting to calling people names and saying they are off their meds is quite childish and lacks any class. Your knee jerk reaction may indicate you have some mental issues and my advice for you is to seek help soon. Maybe you can learn to respect others opinions rather than lashing out.
It should not have surprised me as people on the left seem to fly off before thinking not that I think you are dumb or anything..
Sorry if your feelings were hurt as I wasn't trying to hurt them.

And maybe we can have a more civil discussion in the futute actually about this cool hybrid.
Joe Prius

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 9 2006, 08:30 PM) [snapback]346734[/snapback]</div>

PS: I am the last to be a pessimist. I think you have mistaken my being a realist for pessimism.
Living in denial doesn't make one an optomist either.
But your were probably angry when you wrote that. And no its mostly your media by about 85 to 90%.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 9 2006, 10:24 PM) [snapback]346702[/snapback]</div>

Clinton's closest confidante and golfing partner was Vernon Jordan.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 9 2006, 11:33 PM) [snapback]346734[/snapback]</div>

You're contrition is not honest, so I suppose you're not turned on right now. Using a term like "rapist" in the middle of what was a civil discourse was intended to elicit an emotional response, and I bit with no hesitation. Great example of trolling. And what's wrong with emotion?

You know nothing about my character, much less my age. I've been waiting for a media outlet that helped drive my political beliefs:
Pro-choice
Pro-death penalty
Anti-gun
Fiscal conservative
Social liberal
Pro-education
(among others)
You keep hanging out with Murdoch. I'll keep switching back and forth to get a better, more balanced set of ideas.
And as an FYI:
Main Entry: pes·si·mism Pronunciation: 'pe-s&-"mi-z&m also 'pe-z&- Function: noun
Etymology: French pessimisme, from Latin pessimus worst -- more at PEJORATIVE
1 : an inclination to emphasize adverse aspects, conditions, and possibilities or to expect the worst possible outcome

I may think you're deplorable, but even you deserve a great car like a Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 9 2006, 09:49 PM) [snapback]346715[/snapback]</div>

The problem is, we're in a global economy, and in such an economy everyone prospers the most when they do what comes best to them - and right now, Americans simply aren't the best in the auto industry. From an economics point of view, artificial propping up of an industry is selfish and harmful to the global economy.

That being said, I'm very much Pro-American. The fact that i purchased a Prius doesn't mean I'm not, or that i don't care for my country. it simply means that i didn't want to waste my money on what i viewed as an inferior product for the sake of being able to say I'm supporting America. go home, check your product labels. how many of them say "Made in China"? does that mean you don't care for the American economy just because you purchase something from China? Oh, and did you know that most electronics and chips are produced in China fabrication plants? So how can you claim to be concerned about the American economy when you're posting from a computer which was, for the most part, created in China and maybe assembled here in the states? I'd say you're just as big a supporter of the Chinese economy as I am of the Japanese.

See how baseless claims such as these are? I in no way would assume, just from one or two purchases, that anyone prefers one country over their native one. I wouldn't accuse people of being anti-American for pointing out what really is a big problem in the country. Think before you post.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 9 2006, 10:33 PM) [snapback]346734[/snapback]</div>

Dude, you're the one who needs to grow up... i was reading your first post, and thinking "Wth is this guy going on about? who is he trying to inflame here, everyone?"... And the response to it was rather justified, IMO.

On a seemingly random tangent you brought in Clinton, apparently just so you could mention rape and get people's blood boiling... great job, you got the response you were looking for.

And frankly, i find it hilarious that you can call someone childish and lacking class in one sentence and in the next say they have mental problems for not agreeing with you and need to seek help. hello? anyone home in there?

Given your repeated claims to want to learn more about the Prius, and the apparent lack of ability to civilly discuss politics, i would highly recommend you stick to the technical threads and actually participate in your own learning, and leave the politics alone. Or maybe you could see a medical professional to help curb your clear political discrimination and hatred.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Nov 10 2006, 09:27 AM) [snapback]346864[/snapback]</div>

I did think before I posted. You're the one who should follow that advice. You based your whole argument on your own presumed notions of my buying habits and the country of origin of my clothing and electronics.

I buy American brands: clothing, computers, appliances, cars, everything. I try as hard as I can to buy clothing and other goods that say "Made with PRIDE in the USA." My socks were even made here, how about that?

However, a car is a major purchase. Tens of thousands of dollars are spent, so the stakes are that much greater. You can rationalize and marginalize under the banner of, "But it's a global economy" all you want, it still doesn't change the fact that a large portion of the money that you spent on that car went overseas.

Buying an American car doesn't artificially prop up the economy. The money is real, the jobs saved are real, there's nothing articial about that. And who cares about not harming the "Global Economy" if it means that other countries benefit from America's hardships. You tell me how buying a Cadillac made in Michigan instead of a Lexus made in Japan is going to negatively impact the global economy? It's merely a drop in the bucket on the global scale, but in the U.S. the implications and consequences are tangible and shouldn't be overlooked.

There are plenty of American vehicles that hold their own against the competition. And Japan isn't the best auto-manufacturer just because two of its companies are doing well. What about Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Nissan/Renault, Subaru, and Mazda (which is 1/3 Ford)? They're not exactly the bees knees in quality, fuel-economy, or sales. So this "Japan cars, good. American cars, bad" mantra is dangerously disingenious.

It's sad that you can overlook the plight of tens of thousands of fellow Americans that have lost their manufacturing jobs because you don't want to be selfish and harmful toward the Global Economy. I'm sure they can put their kids through college on your self-satisfation and economic white-washing.

I find it epically hypocritical of you to say that propping up an American industry is selfish to the global economy, yet you bought the Prius because you thought it was right for you, due to its alleged superiority. How altruistic an action, both economically and socially. Not a bit of selfishness there.

Think before you buy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 10 2006, 08:15 AM) [snapback]346919[/snapback]</div>

I do. I buy the best product for the money. I take environmental friendliness, quality, design sophistication and value into consideration. Nowadays, unfortunately, U.S. made products are seldom competitive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 10 2006, 10:15 AM) [snapback]346919[/snapback]</div>

And yet my statement still stands... a majority of electronics and chips are produced in fab plants in China. Just because you purchase a computer from Dell doesn't mean the components that went into it were produced here in the good old U S of A. The same goes for the electronic chips in your appliances and even cars. you think Ford or GM has their own 300mm fab plant? hell no, they most likely outsource that to some plant in China.

You are entirely correct when you say buying American doesn't artificially prop up the local economy... however, import taxes, subsidies and the like, coming from the government and not from the consumer do.

I never said japan good, America bad... instead, i pointed out that the American auto industry is on the decline. Quality has always[/] been an issue with American made cars - there's no question about that. And their seemingly stubborn refusal to pursue hybrid vehicles until lately is a big strike against them (the Prius is closing in on being 10 years old, for crying out loud). And while some companies in Japan are currently doing better than American companies, and some are doing worse, that still doesn't change the fact that i purchased a Prius because i viewed it as a superior offering - superior to every vehicle the American auto makers currently produce.

So saying that a global economy is important, and it's wrong to support practices that harm such an economy goes against my purchasing what i felt was the best car for me?

In an ideal economy everyone would do what they do best. we my buy cars from Toyota, but turn around and sell them computers and software (even those that go into the car...). It's the governments interference in the economy that has, through history, caused economic problems. Want to better understand it? take a macro economics course at your local university - i bet you'll learn a lot.

And lastly, i did think before i bought. i thought "whats my price range? What features do i want in a car (sound system, SKS, GPS, leather versus fabric)? What mileage do i want from a car? What emissions do i want from a car?". When all was said an done, none of the American cars made the list. E85 isn't available at every corner pump, and i don't even know if there is a pump anywhere near me. They don't get great mileage, and most American cars have poor emissions. Further, you have to pay a lot more for another car to get the features you can get on a Prius.

I did think about my purchase. What upsets you is that i made the choice to go for a product that i found superior rather than "buy American" just because it's American. Some people do buy American, because the fact that it's American means more to them in their decision making process. Others care about more.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 9 2006, 10:49 PM) [snapback]346715[/snapback]</div>

NPR February 1, 2006 · Announced layoffs at Ford and GM have made headlines, but do not necessarily reflect the health of the U.S. auto industry's job market. Over the past 15 years, the number of people building autos and making parts in the United States has held just about steady, thanks to hiring by foreign automakers.

No doubt, I would rather buy a US made product when it meets my needs.
Buying a fuel-efficient Prius with it's significantly lower emissions provides health care for the entire planet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LowCO2 @ Nov 10 2006, 12:59 PM) [snapback]347004[/snapback]</div>

Those layoffs wouldn't had happened if more people gave their products a chance before out-right dismissing them.

Pardon me while I roll my eyes. Can your Prius provide my family with full dental coverage? That would be great, thanks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 10 2006, 01:10 PM) [snapback]347009[/snapback]</div>

Ummm...maybe a stupid question but are you only on this site to flame/troll? JC.

And yes, apparently the Prius can provide your family with dental coverage (plus the more important addition of cleaner air):

Toyota currently operates 12 manufacturing plants in North America and will open two additional facilities in the future; Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Texas in San Antonio, Texas in late 2006 and Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada's second plant in Woodstock, Ontario in 2008.

Additionally, Toyota will begin producing the Camry at Subaru of Indiana Automotive, Inc. (SIA) in Lafayette, beginning in Spring 2007.

In 2005, Toyota produced more than 1.55 million vehicles, more than 1.3 million engines and nearly 400,000 automatic transmissions at its North American manufacturing facilities.

By 2008, Toyota will have the annual capacity to build nearly two million cars and trucks, 1.44 million engines, and 600,000 automatic transmissions in North America.

Annual purchasing of parts, materials, goods and services from North American suppliers total more than $28 billion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Nov 10 2006, 01:17 PM) [snapback]347015[/snapback]</div>

I'm not here to troll. I had no intention of becoming political or belligerant, but I'm just shocked by the amount of antipathy that exists here for the hometown teams.

Toyota isn't making the Prius here, so that press release is of dubious value.

And for all of Toyota's US plants, they still don't employ anywhere near the amount of people as the U.S. manufacturers. They also pay lower, have less benefits, and don't provide pension and healthcare for the MILLIONS that GM/Ford/and what was Chrysler Corp. do.

Not to mention a portion of the profits get sent back to Japan for them to invest in new ways of slowing strangling the U.S.'s manufacturing sector.

They took our TV, radio, and computer industries away from us, I'll be deeply saddened if the same fate awaits our automobiles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 10 2006, 02:19 PM) [snapback]347113[/snapback]</div>

Of course they don't employ nearly the same amount of people... they also don't sell as many cars here as those (although they're about to pass GM in world wide sales to become number 1) ones do (especially since you're combining them). I haven't yet seen anything that describes the pension and health care benefits of all those companies, and does a direct comparison... if you have a published article where you got your information, please by all means post it so the rest of us can become enlightened. AFAIK, companies don't give out that information willingly (except to employees and potential employees).

As for the rest of that - the only reason they "took away" those industries is because manufacturing labor is much, much cheaper over there. But i wouldn't say they "took away" those industries - the manufacture of the products, yes. but the media that goes through TV and radio is, for the most part, all produced, edited and created here in the US. and computers are still, for the most part, designed right here in the US.

Simply put, our manufacturing sector is overpaid, when compared to the rest of the world (such as China). if you want to keep the jobs here, convince the employees to take a huge pay cut and the jobs will stop migrating over seas. Until that happens, or manufacturing else where becomes more expensive, we'll high to settle with loosing manufacturing jobs and creating high paying management and R&D jobs.

Actually, I'm reminded of a company i helped write a business plan for. As it turned out, it was cheaper for them to make the wafers in China, ship them over seas to the US for in-house testing, then ship them back to China for packaging and back to the US for final testing before shipping them out to customers. Are you going to condemn that company for utilizing Chinese manufacturing, or applaud them because they're a US company?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 10 2006, 03:19 PM) [snapback]347113[/snapback]</div>

I was born and raised blue collar. "Closing down the textile mill 'cross the railroad tracks..." That line was about my hometown--I have no antipathy for the hometown teams.

Your signature reflects that you are trying to get an emotional response--understanding that most people on this board have serious concern about the environment (not all, mind you, but most) and our country's dependence on foreign oil, you include "My car is a hybrid: it burns gas and rubber" in it? That's why I said that it was a stupid question on my part because it was fairly obvious.

Hard for me to accept your denial of trollhood. If I went onto a Hummer website and put in my signature, "Your car sucks because of your stupidly high MPG" in my signature, I would be trolling.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Nov 10 2006, 02:19 PM) [snapback]347177[/snapback]</div>

Funny what happens here when anyone has anything to say against "popular" opinion.
its attack after attack after attack.
Closed minded fools who think they are somehow enlightened because they think in lock-step with other fools.
You are the epitome of whats dividing the nation these days in a time when we need to be united.

How dare anyone share an opinion different from yours as you are just so much brighter than everyone else at least in your mind.
Maybe livelychick you should change your name to sickchick?
You are overreacting just like the way most people think a stereotypical left winger socialist would. Cognitive Dissonance?
You have an anger, range and nastiness that content and healthy minded people rarely possess.
If your on recreational drugs try quitting them.
Maybe its that you show your real character when you are in this virtual text world of message forums. Hope you aren't like this to people on the streets.
Maybe for a moment, just one moment you might entertain the idea that you go way overboard when someones opinion differs with yours.
Its hard for me to do but I forgive you for your rage and nastiness as well as the name calling as I know everyone has a bad day every now and then.
PS:
Sorry "rapist" was such an inflammatory word for you to handle here but imagine how Juanita Broderick felt when it happened to her.
Imagine if someone did that to one of your family. Think how that must of affected her life. Or if you were felt up or molested or ordered to perform oral on the boss and then people were sent out to intimidate you into keeping quiet about it.
There are plenty of other decent democrats for you to hang your hat on besides the lowly Clintons.

God Bless,
Joe

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chrome @ Nov 10 2006, 04:19 PM) [snapback]347113[/snapback]</div>

Sorry buddy, but are you slow? You come onto a Prius website... God knows why, and are shocked byt he amount of antipath that exists for the Big 3?

They have forums too, go check them out.

The Big 3 have been serving us crap on a platter for as long as I can remember. They don't give a crap about the environment, they make aweful cars in terms of reliability and satisfaction (just take a gander at Consumer Reports to see that), and they think we'll simply buy their cars because they're American (or Canadian or Mexican depending on what plant the build them in).

I'm also sorry about the shift away from a Manufacturing economy has hurt folk like yourself. It's a shame, but the world has changed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe hybrid @ Nov 10 2006, 10:27 PM) [snapback]347288[/snapback]</div>

Go away then 16 year old.

You won't be missed.