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First Impressions Michelin X-Ice

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by c4, Nov 15, 2005.

  1. c4

    c4 Active Member

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    So, they forecasted the first snowfall last night, so when I got home from work yesterday, I put on the Michelin X-Ice winter tires that I had purchased a month or so back..

    I have a Classic Prius, and it requires XL (84 load index or better) in its standard 175/65R14 size. The X-Ice does not come in an XL in the standard size, so stock size was out.. I've been using 185/65R14 Hydroedge tires with good results on the car, but I wanted to go back to the narrower profile for winter snow performance, so I got the 175/70R14 tire, which has the 84 load rating, but is slightly taller, but within the 4% size margin recommended by the tire dealer for alternate sizing.

    The tires on steel rims are each about 3-4 lbs heavier than the Hydroedge on the alloy rims.

    First impressions when driving on this tire- Wow- these are *QUIET* tires.. I had gotten used to the noise of the Hydroedge and after changing to the X-Ice, the road noise reduction is amazing.. I pumped the tires up to 47/45 (tire is rated for 51 PSI) to account for the lower temperatures and amazingly, the ride quality is much smoother than the Hydroedge at 42/40. Traction on pavement is not as good as the Hydroedge- two factors can account for this: 1) tires are brand new and not broken in yet- top layer of rubber is still present and 2) narrower tires, smaller friction patch).. Traction on straightaways is not bad, but lateral grip vs. the Hydroedge is noticably degraded.. No troubles starting/stopping on the minimal snow that we got, but I won't be able to report on real winter performance until we get some more snow. I may be able to tell something about the ice performance later on tonight as we're supposed to be getting freezing rain too...

    In terms of MPG- it looks like I'm about 4 MPG better but I'll know more when I've had a chance to drive some more with these tires... I did expect to get improved fuel economy with these tires vs. the Hydroedge, as going back to a narrower tire (narrower=lower rolling resistance), as well as the increased tire pressure both make a difference to the MPGs. No real perceptible difference in the performance of the car- perhaps a bit slower in accelerating, but that could also be me subconsciously reducing throttle due to the perceived increase in engine noise (which would have been partially masked by the increased road noise from the Hydroedge tires). The speedometer reading is not greatly affected by the slightly larger diameter- about 3 kph/1.8mph low- this correction probably has to be applied to the MPG as well but I haven't wrapped my head around that yet..

    So, initial impressions are that the X-ice are quite decent winter tires.. We'll know more as the real winter gets under way.. I'm anxious to find out whether they'll be as good or better than the Toyo Observes I used to drive on my Corolla..
     
  2. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    You're in Southern Ontario, right? How did they handle the freezing rain?

    I got back to Winnipeg around noon today and can report the Yokohama Ice Guard 10 winter tires are far superior to the Dunlop Graspic DS-2 I had last winter. You were right about that, good advice.
     
  3. mehrenst

    mehrenst Member

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    Its been a few years since I had Michelin-X on a car but I'm surprised by your comments on traction. Of couse tire technology has advanced a lot.

    You might review the pressure you are running in the tires. Considering the weight of the Prius you might be loosing contact patch size with that higher pressure. Its just my opinion but 47/45 seems a bit high.
     
  4. c4

    c4 Active Member

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    These are X-Ice, which are a new product- you would *NOT* have had these on your car before; you're thinking of the X-radial.. Similar name, but totally different tire.. The X-Ice is a winter tire designed for ice and snow traction, the X-radial is an "all season"..

    The reason I have the pressure higher is quite simple- to get the tire back into its proper load-bearing range.. The Hydroedge (85 load rating) is spec'ed 1124lb @ 44psi; the X-Ice (84 load) is 1102 @ 51psi.. Its quite obvious looking at these numbers that if you used the same inflation pressure on both tires, that the winter tire would be able to carry less load; therefore you need to increase the inflation pressure for both this reason and also to account for the lower temperatures experienced in the winter- I don't believe 47 psi is out of order in this situation; indeed, in terms of % of max. load, it's actually *less* than the 42/40 I and many others use in the Hydroedge..

    I also don't believe the contact patch changes that much in modern tires.. The belt and tread construction of modern tires all but eliminates the bulging and contact patch reduction seen in early tires.. Indeed, judging by the wear patterns I'm seeing and that seem to be universally reported by all Prius owners, the Prius is "under-tired" as it is.. Edge-wear even at the high end of inflation range simply does not agree with conventional wisdom which says that the opposite (excessive centre wear) should be occuring..

    As for ice- we didn't get enough of the freezing rain to really put the tires to the test.. I saw a number of cars sliding at a few intersections, but the X-Ice seemed to perform well and I haven't felt the traction control kick in yet (in fact, it hasn't kicked in at all since I've put the tires on and there are a number of places on my route where the road is bumpy where TC always kicks in unless I go really slowly, and this hasn't happened with the X-Ice) .. So far, while I'm still impressed with the tires on the whole, the one single biggest improvement is the quietness of the tires.. Similar to what you reported on the Yokohama, they are softer on the turns and the handling isn't as nice on the summer tires, but in the winter, you generally don't take turns at max speed, so I can live with the performance in that regard..
     
  5. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    A good point on the load capacity.

    According to the sidewall, my Yokohama Ice Guard 10 tires are rated to carry 1,235 lbs at a maximum 35 lbs inflation. They appear to carry the load nicely and also ride very nicely - softer - over the frozen slush.
     
  6. barbaram

    barbaram Active Member

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    So how did you like the hydroedge intially? how was your mileage with them?

    I had put them on my saturn and found them to be a big improvement over the goodyear standard. sadly, my toyota dealer would not upgrade my tires so i am on my own. was looking to go back to them but am here for suggestions.
    barb
     
  7. Edison

    Edison Junior Member

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    I have set of 4 Michelin X-Ice tires on my new '06 Prius. I brought the car home from the dealer two weeks ago here in central Maine and put the tires on in my garage. I'd purchased the tires already mounted on alloy wheels from TireRack. My impressions compared to other snows I've used over the years:

    As C4 said in his original post, they are very QUIET, quieter than some all-season tires I've had. Very nice.

    They handle quite well on the dry -- good cornering, good road feel in the steering (that may be a change in the '06, with its stiffer chassis). This level of performance is much better than that of the Nokians I used for the last few winters on my Audi A4, so I suppose as a comparison to them, the X-Ices are far better (quieter, too).

    They are excellent on the snow and work as advertised on ice -- about as well as studded snow tires, from what I have seen (which admittedly is limited). I'm pleased. We usually get a lot of snow around here, so this is very important to me.

    I can't compare them to the OEM tires, but the gas milage has been just fine. I get around 45 just driving around in fairly short trips. Over the weekend the car managed 54 mpg on a trip of 125 miles, mostly over country roads, and that's all at winter temps. I should mention that I am running 42 psi up front, 40 in the rear.
     
  8. Catskillguy

    Catskillguy New Member

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    You said you bought them from Tire Rack already mounted. What about the Tire Pressure Sensor Monitors?
     
  9. MyPria

    MyPria New Member

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    Edison,
    I too have an 06 with Michelin X-ice tires. They run outstanding in the snow and ice and I agree with you that they offer a good ride on dry pavement . Has your tire pressure sensor light gone off? I had to dismount my snow tires (they were on 05 wheels without the TPMS) and have them mounted on my 06 rims. A real mess. The dealer said if I kept the snow tires without the sensors, I would void the TPMS warranty-this was confirmed by Toyota. I would like to know like Catskillguy what's happening to your TPMS without using sensors. :)
     
  10. roach52osu

    roach52osu New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Catskillguy @ Jan 25 2006, 11:31 PM) [snapback]197594[/snapback]</div>
    I just ordered these from tire rack... the sensors are about $460 (install on wheels included in price if you buy them) or so and do not work with the steel rims only some of the alloy rims they sell. I opted to forget about them, had them shipped mounted and bal... Tire rack was even nice enough to have the tech call and make sure i wanted them this way without the sensor.

    Other posters have discovered when all wheels are replaced the light for the TPS does not stay on it simply disables its self until wheels with TPS are reinstalled.

    Pretty cool.

    Later,
     
  11. Catskillguy

    Catskillguy New Member

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    I just had them mounted and just told the dealer that the stems had to be reused since they were the TPMS.

    With the amount of miles I drive, I expect 2-3 seasons, so the cost of mounting & balancing would be less than new TPMS valve stems.
     
  12. stanleyjohn

    stanleyjohn New Member

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    I bought michelin x-ice tires mounted on steel rims last month from tire rack.Not installed yet! Winter dosnt really start up here in Ct till atleast early Dec.Sounds like i made a good choice :) i will report on them when i install them in early december.I bought hubcaps for those ugly looking black steel rims.
     
  13. harper42

    harper42 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roach52osu @ Nov 13 2006, 06:06 PM) [snapback]348516[/snapback]</div>
    We don't have a Tire Rack nearby. If I ordered them from Tire Rack, I wonder where I could get them mounted..... central Indiana
     
  14. harper42

    harper42 Member

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    Well, I'll let you know. They were predicting a decent snow here in mid-Indiana, Friday. So I had the local Tire Barn order some X-Ice tires for me and I just had them put on today. It was pouring down rain on my way home. A nice smooth drive home. No problems with the rain. But now they say we probably won't be getting the snow. And I was all ready for it..... looking forward to it, actually - so I could see how well my Prius would handle in it. Guess I'll have to wait a little longer. It's like carrying an umbrella when they predict rain... chances are slim that it will rain!
     
  15. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    The condo association where I live finally allowed us to use studded winter tires in the heated underground parking. The local Canadian Tire has a "new" studdable winter tire, the Goodyear Nordic, which is actually the same tire as the Goodyear UltraGrip 500 in Europe:

    http://eu.goodyear.com/se_se/tires/dubbat_...p?page=benefits

    The tires were *very* reasonable to purchase: studded, balanced, and installed for $120 a tire.

    Driving impressions: on dry roads, especially the dry WARM roads we had during our week of +15 C weather, the tires are VERY noisy. A lot of that has to do with the tread design. At speeds over 50 km/h they make a noise just like a bias-ply truck mud and snow tire from the 1970's.

    We had some heavy rain about 2 weeks ago. The Nordic/Ice Guard 500 is a nice directional tire and even at Trans Canada speeds, had no problem evacuating the water away. Looking in the rear view mirror it was apparent with the two clear strips behind me.

    On snow and especially ice, the Nordic's are just as much an improvement over my Yokohama Ice Guard tires, as the Ice Guard tires were over the Michelin Harmony in the same conditions. I just returned this week from a long business trip, right in the middle of a blizzard, and had no problem with the slick intersections and drifted side streets.

    About the only way to get the traction control to engage is to really ream it. In normal sane driving, no problem racing away from suv's with all-season tires.

    Fuel economy: I took a fairly large hit with highway driving. On a given stretch of Trans Canada at 110 km/h, similar temps, I might expect 5.1 l/100 km with the Michelin Harmony. With the Yokohama Ice Guard 10 studless winter tire, around 5.5 l/100km. With the studded Goodyear Nordic/Ice Guard 500, I only get around 6.2 l/100km.

    In MPG Imperial gallon, that contrasts 55 MPG with the Harmony tire to only 45 MPG with the Nordic/Ice Guard 500. Once Spring is here, the winter tires come off as we're only allowed to use studded tires until the end of April.
     
  16. Catskillguy

    Catskillguy New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dulcimer @ Nov 27 2006, 09:41 PM) [snapback]354653[/snapback]</div>
    Tire Rack has local places where you can have them ship direct to, and then they charge you whatever the price is to mount and balance. I remember the website gave you approximate costs when you click on the local affiliates that you could choose from to install.
     
  17. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I've received a few emails suggesting that perhaps the Goodyear Sweden web site might be a bit ... incomprehensible. Sorry about that, we have a Swedish engineer at the office who was very eager to translate the page for me, and I didn’t give it a second thought.

    Try this EU page instead. If you click on Profile you will get a nice video explaining all the benefits of the tire.

    http://eu.goodyear.com/home_en/tires/repos...p?page=benefits
     
  18. Houston

    Houston New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Edison @ Jan 25 2006, 07:13 PM) [snapback]197574[/snapback]</div>
    I am interested in your remark re the Nokian tires. Were these the winter or the all season WR's ? My local tire dealer has been singing the praises of the Nokian WR over the Michelin product. Perhaps it has something to do with the price!
     
  19. c4

    c4 Active Member

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    My brother has the WRs on his car; the WRs are the only tire I've driven which I would truly consider "all season".. They perform very well in warmer weather and have superior winter performance (very heavily siped tread), but for pure winter driving, I still like the X-ice better.. The WRs appear to wear extremely well, but his car is an Elantra and not a Prius, and from my experience, the Prius does wear tires out faster than most other vehicles (my HydroEdges are basically done (ironically, at the "edges", the centres still have plenty of tread left), and they've done nowhere close to their rated life; the car's alignment is checked yearly (and is fine) and I'm running 44/42 PSI)..
     
  20. harper42

    harper42 Member

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    JUst looked out the window and IT SNOWED LAST NIGHT. Not enough for a true test of the X-Ice, but I've been waiting to drive them in the snow..... Maybe I need to run in and check out that sale at JoAnns...... another local shop pushed out by the the big WalMart Giant